170 Degrees

Discussion in 'SRT Hellcat General Discussions' started by Lacan, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. Lacan

    Lacan Rookie

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    Trivial thread, however since I purchased my cat. I wait until it hits 160~170 degrees before moving her. Anyone else do the same or am I just wasting fuel?
     
  2. Aarcuda

    Aarcuda Gold Member

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    absolutely wasting fuel. there is no need to warm a car up before driving away. none. google it
     
  3. greenwithenvy

    greenwithenvy Gold Member

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    Wasting fuel. In any vehicle I have ever had, whether a car, airplane or whatever, I always wait at least 10-15 seconds to get the oil circulating before moving or putting any kind of load on the engine but I do wait until it is fully warmed up before I put a lot of load or stress on the engine. If you are in a cold climate, yes I would wait until there is some heat but waiting until the thermostat hits 170 is a waste of time and fuel.
     
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  4. Aarcuda

    Aarcuda Gold Member

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    a cold engine wears more. starting it up and driving it warms it up faster.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_19704_6-car-myths-that-cost-you-money-every-year.html
    The Reality:

    As long as you're not flooring it everywhere you go, you can get going as soon as you turn the key. This myth comes from an understandable place: Various engine parts and oil do take some time to warm up before they can operate at full capacity. However, an idling engine takes much longer to warm up, so it ends up experiencing far more cold-start wear and tear than if you just hopped in and drove it.

    Think about it: When your engine is idling, it's still producing power, so what difference does it make if that power is being used to move the car or just scratch its shiny metal ass? Additionally, there are other parts of your car that also need warming up, like your transmission and wheel bearings, and those don't get any help until you actually get the thing moving.

    Is it Really Necessary to Warm up Your Car in The Morning? | Hillmuth Certified Automotive

    The Logic Behind Warming Up
    The practice of idling your car in winter has been around for a very long time. And it does make sense when you think about it: cars do take longer to warm up and get worse fuel economy in cold weather. The idea behind it is that idling before driving is necessary to:

    • allow the oil to circulate through all parts of the engine
    • let the engine reach its normal operating temperature
    • reduce engine wear and prolong its life
    These reasons sound convincing and it’s understandable why someone without mechanical knowledge can take them for truth. Some die-hard supporters of this practice would let the car idle anywhere between five and ten minutes before driving off. Another approach is to wait till the temperature indicator moves half-way between C and H, which could take even longer on some vehicles.

    The Facts Behind Warming Up
    It’s important to understand that “warming up” your vehicle in the morning doesn’t require idling. All modern vehicles were designed with cold weather in mind and can warm up just fine while in motion.

    • Driving your car will allow all of the components to warm up faster than idling.
    • Prolonged idling may damage the engine and its components due to incomplete fuel combustion.
    • Prolonged idling may lead to the early failure of the catalytic converter due to its inefficient performance during idling.
    • Idling contributes to the pollution more than driving as it releases more unburnt gasses.
    • Warming up your car wastes gas and money, especially if your vehicle uses premium fuel.
    • Idling your car inside a garage may cause dangerous fumes to enter your home.
    • Leaving your car unattended while idling opens up an opportunity for theft.
    • Cars built in the last 20 years only need no more than 30 seconds of warm-up time, regardless of whether the engine runs on diesel or gasoline.
    In fact, Maryland Transportation Code has an anti-idling provision that imposes a fine of up to $500 for idling a vehicle for longer than five minutes. There are exceptions that allow longer idling and “bringing vehicle to manufacturer’s recommended operating temperature” is one of them. Check with you car’s manual to see what your manufacturer recommends, but the chances are good that little to no idling time is required.

    What You Should Do Instead
    You don’t have to wait to drive longer than 30 seconds after starting your car. However, for the first five to ten minutes, drive the car gently, with smooth braking and acceleration, to avoid putting unnecessary stress on the engine. Keep the RPMs low and don’t slam on the brakes—this is enough to allow your car to warm up while in motion.

    You could let it idle a bit longer if:

    • The temperature is far below freezing
    • You need to clear large amounts of snow or ice off your car
    • You want the interior to get toasty warm when you get in.
    Generally, once your windows are defrosted and you have all-around visibility, you are good to go. And while the car might feel cold initially, the interior will get warm faster when you are driving. Turn the heat on low when you start the car, so that you don’t get a blast of cold air in your face. Turn it up once the air gets warm. To save gas, you can get an external car interior preheater or make sure your next vehicle operates heat independently of the engine like some hybrid and electric cars.

    Hopefully, if you have been warming up your car with all the best intentions, you now know that idling does more harm than good to both your vehicle and the environment. And other good news is that you’ve just gained ten more minutes of sleep!

    The biggest winter energy myth: That you need to idle your car before driving

    We've all heard the idea: In winter, your car needs a little time to warm up before you can drive it. And that's why across the United States, people who live in cold and snowy places -- and especially those whose cars have remote starters -- often fire up their engines long before they start driving. Heck, they might even start the car from the kitchen in the morning, and only then start the coffee brewing.

    But it turns out that this idea of idling your car during the winter is just wrong. And so are the many, many Americans who believe it -- one 2009 study found that on average, Americans thought they should idle for over 5 minutes before driving when temperatures were below 32 degrees!

    Like many misconceptions, the idea behind winter car idling begins with a kernel of truth. Cars do get worse fuel economy when it's really cold out -- they are at least 12 percent less fuel efficient, according to Environmental Protection Agency and Energy Department. And it does take longer for the engine to warm up and reach an optimal driving temperature in cold weather.

    Moreover, older cars -- which relied on carburetors as a crucial engine component -- did need to warm up to work well, according to several auto industry experts. Without warming up, the carburetor would not necessarily be able to get the right mix of air and fuel in the engine -- and the car might stall out. During the 1980s and into the early 1990s, however, the auto industry did away with carburetors in favor of electronic fuel injection, which uses sensors to supply fuel to the engine and get the right air and fuel mix. This makes the problem of warming up the car before driving irrelevant, because the sensors monitor and adjust to temperature conditions.

    Idling in winter thus has no benefit to your (presumably modern) car. Auto experts today say that you should warm up the car no more than 30 seconds before you start driving in winter. "The engine will warm up faster being driven," the EPA and DOE explain. Indeed, it is better to turn your engine off and start it again than to leave it idling. (As many readers pointed out after this post was first published, it's always important to be careful driving in winter, and clear your windshield of any ice.)

    So idling does nothing for your vehicle, but it does have several big (and avoidable) costs: Wasting fuel, and giving off greenhouse gas emissions and other types of pollution.

    To show as much, Natural Resources Canada -- the energy and resources agency of a cold country that also has serious idling problems -- ran an idling experiment, freezing three cars to minus 18 degrees Celsius and then driving each one the same distance. Sometimes the cars were idled five minutes before driving, and sometimes 10 minutes. The result was that the more idling time, the more wasted fuel.

    "The test results showed that with a 5-minute warm-up total fuel consumption increased by 7 to 14 percent and with a 10-minute warm-up total fuel consumption increased by 12 to 19 percent," the agency reported.

    The Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory, which has also conducted much research on idling, reported that "idling fuel consumption is, of course, linear with time, and increases with engine size":

    [​IMG]
    Source: Argonne National Laboratory.
    Or to put it more bluntly: Whereas newer cars are constantly improving the miles they get per gallon driven, idling will always be stuck in place -- using up gas, but getting no miles for it.

    But it's not just fuel waste, it's the accompanying emissions. What does it look like when you have a whole population of people -- or at least the northern belt of a country like the U.S. -- idling their cars in winter?

    A 2009 study in Energy Policy tried to calculate the consequences. The researchers found that, overall, all types of vehicle idling -- idling in winter, idling while waiting for someone or something, and idling in traffic -- contribute a staggering 1.6 percent of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.

    That number is "almost double the total emissions for the iron and steel manufacturing industry," the paper noted. (In fairness, since the study was published vehicle fuel economy has improved, and new vehicle greenhouse gas emissions have declined, thanks to new regulations. So especially for new vehicles, this may somewhat blunt the overall effects of idling.)

    That is not to say that all idling should be stopped immediately. Some idling -- particularly in traffic -- may be unavoidable. But the other two categories of idling -- in winter and while waiting -- make a lot less sense. And the study found that they account for nearly half of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions attributable to idling.

    And no wonder: When 1,300 Americans were surveyed about idling for the study, nearly half reported both idling their cars for longer than 30 seconds to warm them up and idling for more than 30 seconds because of waiting. Indeed, the average amount of time that respondents thought you should idle your car before driving, when it is lower that 32 degrees Fahrenheit outside, was 5.01 minutes! And since that's the average, many people thought you should idle for a lot longer than that.

    "These values indicate that beliefs about how much idling is appropriate or desirable are highly distorted," the authors wrote.

    The study found that if people would just knock off unnecessary idling of this sort, then consumers as a whole would save $5.9 billion per year on fuel costs (based on the cost of fuel in 2008). The saved emissions, the study noted, would be "larger than the emissions from the soda ash, aluminum and limestone industries combined."

    Idling behavior, the paper concluded, is "worthy of policymakers' attention." Some have taken note. For instance, often-freezing Minneapolis has an anti-idling statute that restricts all non-traffic idling to three minutes per hour (with some exceptions). Anti-idling laws across the country vary, but some localities follow a similar course. So idling isn't just pointless -- beyond a point, it may even trigger a hefty fine.

    Meanwhile, technological advances, and the push for ever greater fuel economy, are even starting to help deal with the most unavoidable type of idling: Idling because you're stuck in traffic. Vehicle start-stop technology literally shuts down the engine when your car is stopped, and automatically switches it on again when you start to drive again. This technology tends to be found in hybrids but has spread to other cars as well. GM now boasts that 97 percent of buyers of a 2014 or 2015 Chevy Malibu bought a car with start-stop technology.

    So, it's hard to see any redeeming value to idling your car in winter. For the final word on the dumbness of this practice, let's turn to the late Tom Magliozzi, the unforgettable co-host of NPR's "Car Talk." As he put it to a Boston listener named Lisa, who had asked about her boyfriend's conviction that you need to idle up to 10 minutes in winter:
     
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