AFE Intake Independent Dyno Testing after 50 and 500 miles of break in

Discussion in 'aFe Power' started by Dak59RT, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. Dak59RT

    Dak59RT Gold Member

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    50 mile TEST
    Okay guys, the results are in… sort of... lets dig in:

    I installed my AFE cold air intake last night. It was a VERY easy installation. I started my drive towards the dyno shop using a very long route to put on 51 miles of driving (mixed driving of all sorts) over the period of about 90 minutes. Upon arrival at the dyno shop, the outside temperature and dewpoint were 94.2F and 72.8F, giving a DA of 2702ft. This is pretty typical weather for mid-July in Houston, TX. The car sat for 20 minutes behind a monster fan cooling off. All of the data I have for each run is given below. The wideband O2 sensor wasn't hooked up into the dyno machine so the A/F readings were done more by eye. I will go more into A/F and boost readings at the end.

    Before we go any further, I would like to say that I have been in touch with AFE and a repeat dyno session is being scheduled for next week. The results with the AFE filters were not as expected with a Hellcat. As I have worked out privately with AFE, I will give them the courtesy of paying for the dyno repeat as they requested, and I will withhold all AFE-related results until then. The AFE engineers say that their filters need more time to breathe and function before they put out max power. The filters supposedly don’t flow to their max potential right out of the box and the 50 miles of spirited driving I put on the oiled filter wasn’t enough. Per their request, I will be putting on at least 200 additional miles on the oiled filter to allow it to properly break in before the next dyno. A repeat dyno will then be done and I will rerun the AFE oiled filter. If I think more comparisons should be tested, I will add more runs to the end of their suggested set of dyno runs.

    Regardless of what happens next week, ALL of my results for the dynos at 50 miles of break in and 250 miles of break in will be given to you guys! Just to be sure of that, I am going to show you what is being withheld. See below.

    IMG_7223.JPG

    10 minute cooldown outside, 20 minute cooldown in front of the fan

    IMG_7227.JPG

    Run #1: AFE Oiled Filter
    Immediately prior to the run:
    Coolant Temp: 210F
    I/C Coolant Temp: 134F
    Intake Air Temp: 177F
    Car Thermometer: 98F
    Shop Temp: 102F
    Shop Humidity: 32%
    Shop Pressure: 29.52 in-Hg
    SAE Max Power: 609 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 572 lb-ft
    SAE: 1.04

    10 minute cooldown
    Bush Airport Temperature: 94.2
    Bush Airport Dewpoint: 72.8
    Bush Airport Barometric Pressure: 1013.23 hPa
    Density Altitude: 2702ft

    Run #2: AFE Oiled Filter
    Immediately prior to the run:
    Coolant Temp: 205F
    I/C Coolant Temp: 120F
    Intake Air Temp: 161F
    Car Thermometer: 98F
    Shop Temp: 102F
    Shop Humidity: 31%
    Shop Pressure: 29.52 in-Hg
    SAE Max Power: 610 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 573 lb-ft
    SAE: 1.04

    10 minute cooldown
    Bush Airport Temperature: 94.2
    Bush Airport Dewpoint: 72.8
    Bush Airport Barometric Pressure: 1013.18 hPa
    Density Altitude: 2708ft

    IMG_7241.JPG

    Run #3: AFE Dry Filter
    Immediately prior to the run:
    Coolant Temp: 204F
    I/C Coolant Temp: 120F
    Intake Air Temp: 163F
    Car Thermometer: 98F
    Shop Temp: 103F
    Shop Humidity: 29%
    Shop Pressure: 29.51 in-Hg
    SAE Max Power: 631 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 591 lb-ft
    SAE: 1.04

    NO cooldown

    Run #4: AFE Dry Filter
    Immediately prior to the run:
    Coolant Temp: 217F
    I/C Coolant Temp: 118F
    Intake Air Temp: 168F
    Car Thermometer: 98F
    Shop Temp: 103F
    Shop Humidity: 28%
    Shop Pressure: 29.51 in-Hg
    SAE Max Power: 620 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 586 lb-ft
    SAE: 1.04

    10 minute cooldown

    IMG_7253.JPG

    Run #5: Factory CAI, No Filter
    Immediately prior to the run:
    Coolant Temp: 210F
    I/C Coolant Temp: 118F
    Intake Air Temp: 160F
    Shop Temp: 103F
    Shop Humidity: 28%
    Shop Pressure: 29.50 in-Hg
    SAE Max Power: 635 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 600 lb-ft
    SAE: 1.04

    10 minute cooldown
    Bush Airport Temperature: 93.7
    Bush Airport Dewpoint: 72.5
    Bush Airport Barometric Pressure: 1013.14 hPa
    Density Altitude: 2676ft

    IMG_7263.JPG

    Run #6: Factory CAI with Factory Filter
    Immediately prior to the run:
    Coolant Temp: 203F
    I/C Coolant Temp: 118F
    Intake Air Temp: 147F
    Car Thermometer: 98F
    Shop Temp: 103F
    Shop Humidity: 28%
    Shop Pressure: 29.51 in-Hg
    SAE Max Power: 646 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 605 lb-ft
    SAE: 1.0

    IMG_7269.JPG

    A/F consistently ran in the mid to high 11s.
    Boost maxed out at 10lbs for runs 1-4 and hit 11lbs on runs 5 and 6.

    As the car ran on the dyno over 6 runs, each cooldown recovery period was held to 10 minutes. You might expect that the later runs would be the worst due to poor cooling. Despite this potential handicap, the intake air temperature was able to creep down to 147F (possibly due to the air filter being removed on the previous run), while the coolant and I/C temperatures held remarkably consistent over all 6 runs.

    They dyno operator said that in his experience, my car would put out 700+ on a 50 degree day. He pulled up dyno results of another stock hellcat back in February that put down 710rwhp.

    Sorry for being a tease! I’m just trying to do what I feel is the right thing.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    500 mile RETEST

    As many of you know, I have delayed posting the dyno results of the AFE CAI after 50 miles of break in because the results were unexpected. AFE requested that I break in the filter for the minimum 250 miles and retest on the dyno. AFE paid in full for this retest. Over the past week, I have driven my Hellcat 500 miles over 11 hours with the AFE oiled filter, well beyond the suggested break in, so that I could completely rule out questions of inadequate break in.

    Before you review the results below, please keep a few things in mind. AFE is a stand up company, guaranteeing their results and offering a return to those of us in the Group Buy who are unhappy for any reason. They paid in full for my dyno retest at a time when independent results are scarce just so we can all be sure my results aren’t misleading. My results from both dyno runs have not met expectations but there are some important considerations to take from that.
    1. My results are the results of ONE CAR.
    2. My results represent what MY CAR does in a 100F shop with no other modifications and the results can no way be construed that the AFE intake would not show gains while supporting other modifications (ie pulleys, tune, etc). It’s also possible that the AFE intake shines more than the factory box when it’s colder outside, although I am doubtful of this possibility on my Hellcat.
    3. I understand that some may become hesitant of this intake based on my results, as you might should be, but be careful to draw your own conclusions using more than just my results. My results tell me the only story I need to know, but my results should be only part of the story to YOU.
    4. I still can’t help but wonder how many Hellcats AFE tested to find a 37rwhp gain and what test conditions they used.
    5. AFE isn’t hiding from anything, has been very helpful trying to get my intake working to expectations, and continues to stand behind their product. This clearly indicates to me that my car may just be a non-responder to this particular product and is not representative of all Hellcats. I’m sure we will all see whether or not that’s true in the coming months with more independent dyno (and track) testing.
    SUMMARY:

    The AFE oiled filter needs to be broken in
    In short, the AFE oiled filter at 500 miles did respond to the break in period, which yielded 20 rwhp (average peak power of 610rwhp vs 630rwhp) more on the dyno vs the AFE oiled filter at 50 miles. The AFE oiled filter after 500 mile break in did not give the 3500rpm downward power dip on the dyno graph observed with the AFE oiled filter at 50 miles of break in. These observations suggest that the AFE oiled filter does need to be broken in with the suggested minimum number of miles to realize the maximum flow.

    No power difference between the AFE CAI with oiled filter vs the factory intake with filter
    After 500 miles of driving, the AFE oiled filter setup went straight onto the dyno. The car put out 627 rwhp and 597 lb-ft (n=2, average of 2 runs). Switching to the factory setup, the car put out 633 rwhp and 600 lb-ft (n=2). To rule out arguments such as the computer adds more fuel as more runs are done, the AFE oiled filter was run two more times and gave 634rwhp and 601 lb-ft (n=2). Averaging all AFE runs gave 630 rwhp and 599 lb-ft (n=4). These results indicate that the AFE oiled filter, while undoubtedly broken in, produced peak power numbers not significantly different than with the factory air box and filter. Furthermore, power and torque curves for all 6 runs of the day traced each other almost perfectly across the entire RPM band, making it difficult to distinguish between runs without looking to the legend and impossible to find a winner.

    THE DETAILS:

    Ambient temperature, humidity, and DA were not significantly different from the dyno runs performed last week and were consistent throughout the dyno runs , so they are only listed below once. Learning a little from the last set of dyno runs, I brought a 2 foot fan to help concentrate cooler (100F) shop air through the intercooler. This fan was in addition to the huge 4 foot fan placed about 2 feet in front of the car and a smaller fan that sat on a stool blowing cool (100F) air directly into the headlamp intake. In addition to the temperatures I recorded last time prior to each run, I will also be posting the temperatures that were recorded during the actual dyno pull. I am also going to show A/F range and boost peak during the runs. All runs done in 4thgear, traction control was turned off with by holding down the button until the dash light illuminated, and the ABS fuse was pulled for good measure. 10 minute cool-down minimum prior to each run.

    The general layout of this test was to run the AFE oiled filter twice to lay down a baseline of what it can do when properly broken in, compare to the factory airbox under identical conditions, and then rerun the AFE oiled filter twice to rule out arguments of computer adaptation (or lack thereof) leading to potentially inflated factory airbox dyno runs. The AFE oiled filter had the FIRST AND LAST WORD in this fight.

    The last thing I would like to point out is that the Air Intake Temperatures ran approximately 35-40 degrees above ambient during the pull, which matches the offset temperature that I observe when driving my car around at 40-60mph under the same ambient weather conditions. The coolant and Intercooler Temperatures also ran at the same temps during the run as they would under the same ambient conditions while driving 40-60mph.

    Bush Airport Temperature: 98
    Bush Airport Dewpoint: 68
    Bush Airport Barometric Pressure: 1017 hPa
    Density Altitude: 2687ft
    Shop Temp: 102-105F
    Shop Humidity: 24-30%
    Shop Pressure: 29.52 – 29.64 in-Hg

    Dyno #1: AFE Oiled Filter at 500 miles (AFE Run 1)
    Car Thermometer: 99F
    [BEFORE] Coolant Temp: 215F
    [BEFORE] I/C Coolant Temp: 113F
    [BEFORE] Intake Air Temp: 145F
    [DURING] I/C Coolant Temp: 114F
    [DURING] Intake Air Temp: 136F
    [DURING] A/F ratio range: 11.8 +/- 0.2
    [DURING] Boost Peak: 11psi
    SAE Max Power: 623 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 597 lb-ft

    Dyno #2: AFE Oiled Filter at 500 miles (AFE Run 2)
    Car Thermometer: 99F
    [BEFORE] Coolant Temp: 205F
    [BEFORE] I/C Coolant Temp: 116F
    [BEFORE] Intake Air Temp: 149F
    [DURING] I/C Coolant Temp: 116F
    [DURING] Intake Air Temp: 140F
    [DURING] A/F ratio range: 11.8 +/- 0.3
    [DURING] Boost Peak: 11psi
    SAE Max Power: 633 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 596 lb-ft

    Dyno #3: Factory Airbox with Factory Filter (Factory Run 1)
    Car Thermometer: 99F
    [BEFORE] Coolant Temp: 210F
    [BEFORE] I/C Coolant Temp: 116F
    [BEFORE] Intake Air Temp: 150F
    [DURING] I/C Coolant Temp: 116F
    [DURING] Intake Air Temp: 140F
    [DURING] A/F ratio range: 11.8 +/- 0.2
    [DURING] Boost Peak: 11psi
    SAE Max Power: 630 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 600 lb-ft

    Dyno #4: Factory Airbox with Factory Filter (Factory Run 2)
    Car Thermometer: 99F
    [BEFORE] Coolant Temp: 195F
    [BEFORE] I/C Coolant Temp: 120F
    [BEFORE] Intake Air Temp: 160F
    [DURING] I/C Coolant Temp: 118F
    [DURING] Intake Air Temp: 140F
    [DURING] A/F ratio range: 11.9 +/- 0.3
    [DURING] Boost Peak: 11psi
    SAE Max Power: 636 hp (BEST FACTORY RUN)
    SAE Max Torque: 600 lb-ft

    Dyno #5: AFE Oiled Filter at 500 miles (AFE Run 3)
    Car Thermometer: 99F
    [BEFORE] Coolant Temp: 190F
    [BEFORE] I/C Coolant Temp: 136F
    [BEFORE] Intake Air Temp: 170F
    [DURING] I/C Coolant Temp: 118F
    [DURING] Intake Air Temp: 140F
    [DURING] A/F ratio range: 11.8 +/- 0.2
    [DURING] Boost Peak: 11psi
    SAE Max Power: 640 hp (BEST AFE RUN)
    SAE Max Torque: 603 lb-ft

    Dyno #6: AFE Oiled Filter at 500 miles (AFE Run 4)
    Car Thermometer: 99F
    [BEFORE] Coolant Temp: 213F
    [BEFORE] I/C Coolant Temp: 116F
    [BEFORE] Intake Air Temp: 163F
    [DURING] I/C Coolant Temp: 114F
    [DURING] Intake Air Temp: 138F
    [DURING] A/F ratio range: 11.8 +/- 0.2
    [DURING] Boost Peak: 10psi (11psi not observed)
    SAE Max Power: 628 hp
    SAE Max Torque: 598 lb-ft

    All 4 AFE oiled filter runs after 500 miles of break in
    IMG_0025.JPG

    Factory Airbox vs AFE oiled filter (last 2 runs)
    IMG_0024.JPG

    AFE oiled filter at 50 mile and 500 miles of break in
    IMG_0017.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
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  2. Deputydog

    Deputydog Gold Member

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    Nice work Dak! Thanks for testing this out for all of us.. It confirms what I have felt since installing mine, that is there was virtually no difference between stock filter setup and the aFe.. I have held back from posting about it much waiting for your results. But since installing I could really tell no difference. I know some report feeling more power and thats great!

    I think I'm ready to send mine back. I purchased it based on the claims of +37 HP.. I knew it would be unlikely to actually see 37HP and thought if its close thats ok too.. But if I am reading your results correctly, you only saw about 4 HP gains..

    Who wants to start a "group refund" thread? LOL
     
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  3. cole3986

    cole3986 Gold Member

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    total joke, so glad I am returning my AFE CAI, please do not tell about variables and different dynos, total snake oil salesman, yes this means you Josh
     
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  4. TIGwelder

    TIGwelder SSDD

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    Good job Dak! Thanks
     
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  5. yurdaddy

    yurdaddy Silver Member

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    Thanks dak. You did all you could to make this product shine. Unfortunately it didn't. I'll be sending mine back.
     
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  6. Nitewing

    Nitewing Gold Member

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    Outstanding work Dak! Unfortunately this lines up with the other results told to me by another user who only got about a 10hp gain and was deeply upset about it. You did a much more comprehensive test and remained very fair and unbiased and we all certainly appreciate that. I'd like to see still if anyone can reproduce even close numbers to the 37 gains they claimed.
     
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  7. hellcat1

    hellcat1 Gold Member

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    Wow,, there is going to be a lot of people sending there kit back..unless They have a fix,, or they decline our refund
     
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  8. hellcat1

    hellcat1 Gold Member

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    Yurdaddy,, when are you calling them
     
  9. yurdaddy

    yurdaddy Silver Member

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    Tomorrow
     
  10. cole3986

    cole3986 Gold Member

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    Nope, Josh said that unconditional warranty, I cannot believe this is how AFE does business.
     
  11. aFe POWER

    aFe POWER Gold Member Hellcat Supporting Vendor

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    It's hard to know why Dak's HC isn't happy on the dyno. As others have mentioned there are so many factors, and it's hard not having access to the vehicle, knowing the dyno, shop, testing procedures, or why even the factory numbers in all runs are low. Even small timing pulls from the ECU can cause big swings in power output and boost levels. aFe stands behind all of its products, including this intake. Unfortunately without access to the vehicle, or any additional insight on this customers dyno trip, we're left with questions as well.

    If there is another issue with the car, we won't know, but being the only independent test out, makes it difficult for the general audience to see what the intake is capable of on a stock vehicle, much less the additional airflow which will help with additional boost via pullies, headers and exhaust when those who are going big chase the really big numbers.
     
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  12. yurdaddy

    yurdaddy Silver Member

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    I had a bad feeling once josh went dark on us two weeks ago.
     
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  13. jgil

    jgil Silver Member Hellcat Car Club HCC Charter Member

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    :(
    Well after reading all the info from dal I can only say I believe mine is going back also. I was finding it hard to believe that we would pick up 37 hp but I was hopeful so I'm in for a return. Nuff said!:(:(:(
     
  14. hellcat1

    hellcat1 Gold Member

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    So what are you saying Josh...Are you going to honor the refund, or wait for more testing
     
  15. TIGwelder

    TIGwelder SSDD

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    I would like to see pulls with lower ambient and coolant temps just out of curiosity. Say with a 185 tstat
     
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