Octane vs Ethanol

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Red Key, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. Red Key

    Red Key Rookie

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    I would like to run ethanol free gas in my Hellcat. Unfortunately, the few gas stations in my area only carry ethanol fee gas in 90 octane. Since Dodge recomends 91 octane does anyone have any suggestions? Would running the motor consistently with 90 octane cause damage or performance issues? Would any tradeoffs be worth running the ethanol fee gas? Thanks
     
  2. FreightTrain

    FreightTrain Comfortably Numb

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    its built to run on 10% corn and a min91... the last thing "I" would do is run lower then 91 or add boosters to the fuel. Just enjoy your awesome car :)

    eddited : ive run a couple tanks of regular corn free performance 91 and i think it runs better on the 93 corn
     
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  3. im3cpo

    im3cpo Senior Hellcat Member

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    While I hate to say this, I too would not go below 91 octane (regardless of ethanol or ethanol free). I have only put around 200 miles on my car, so not sure how it responds to ethanol vs. non-ethanol but I do have a 2014 SRT8 Jeep and a 2014 AMG Mercedes C63 507 Edition. I get a much smoother idle and all around smoother running engine when running non-ethanol fuel but the only octane available to me is 92.

    One option you "could" do is add some octane to your 90 non-ethanol and see how your car responds. One tank wont hurt you one way or the other. If you want something that's marketed to do this, you could get a can of Torco. I think its around 115 octane. There is a calculation which I am sure you can dig up to figure out the right amount to use. There is an alternative to Torco (the name escapes me right now, but I have a barrel of it in my garage so I will check later and get back to you) which is essentially the chemical equivalent to how the octane is increased in gasoline (from refining). Its easy to get as its sold as a paint thinner. It too is 115 octane I believe. I had a 2009 SRT8 Challenger and used non-ethanol 91 plus the 115 octane stuff I am referring to and my car ran like a million bucks whenever I used it! This method is the most cost effective. Torco is nice in that it doesn't go stale and comes in individual cans. The stuff I used can be bought in a 20 gal barrel which you will have to measure and add yourself.

    Good luck!
     
  4. Mopar Ragtop

    Mopar Ragtop Hellcat Member

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    I would like to run ethanol free gas in my Hellcat. Unfortunately, the few gas stations in my area only carry ethanol fee gas in 90 octane. Since Dodge recomends 91 octane does anyone have any suggestions? Would running the motor consistently with 90 octane cause damage or performance issues? Would any tradeoffs be worth running the ethanol fee gas?


    I live in SC and most of the gas pumps say up to 20% Ethanol but octane is 93 for premium. Wonder if this stuff (up to 20%) is going to be a problem?
     
  5. pinetreecat

    pinetreecat Gold Member

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    Does the cat owners manual say car is approved for up to 15% ethanol?

    That is reserved for Flex Fuel Vehicles like my 13 Ram 1500. Usually takes a tune to run more than 10% if vehicle is not engineered for it.
     
  6. 70Cuda

    70Cuda Yep, its got a HEMI

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    Cats like the corn gas (10%) !!!!

    I hate that stuff. it has side effects we all know. ( and politics :mad::mad::mad:)

    I have to drive a county away (1 hour round trip) to get non ethanol fuel. its 91 all other fuel is 87 or 89 with up to 10%. Local stations have 87,89 or 93 with 10%.

    I bring a 55 gal drum out as needed ( every other week ) and top it off with the 91 non ethanol.


    I believe they put less ethanol in the gas this time of year and more in the spring/summer but I don't have any way of proving it.

    Is there a device you can take to the pump and read how much you are getting?

    If you drive the car year round and don't let it sit for more than 2 weeks just run the crap, your car is made for it and it likes it. If you will store your car don't put any in the tank before long term storage unless you can drain it all out of the system.
     
  7. Mac Attack

    Mac Attack Rookie

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    Octane is about a fuels ability to resist knock. If you run lower octane the engine will detune itself to not knock. So it will work but will not be 707hp. I agree no ethanol for a car that is going to sit.
     
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  8. Hemi Rocket

    Hemi Rocket Gold Member

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    That is true for E85 but I don't think it changes for E10... I have to agree my cat runs great on 93 octane E10. I agree about storage... if it sits for a long time (over the winter) put 91 ethanol free gas in the tank. The issue with alcohol blended fuels is moisture. Alcohol absorbs water... when it does this, you get phase separation of the fuel. Meaning the alcohol absorbs the water... water is heavier than gas so it pulls the high octane ethanol out of the gas. Then you end up with alcohol that laden with water sitting on the bottom of the tank (Not Good). The other thing that happens is ethanol is a great octane booster. So when the fuel separates your left with a lower octane gasoline (Not Good).
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
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  9. 70Cuda

    70Cuda Yep, its got a HEMI

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    I know in our area SE Wisconsin we got a summer " cocktail " at least thats what they tell us every spring when the gas prices shoot up 45-55 cents a gallon.. Its because we need a special mixture. then it drops late summer when the temps go down.. The fuel smell different at times even tho I purchase from the same station.
     
  10. specl4ss

    specl4ss Silver Member

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    The fuel I run here is 93 octane with no ethanol in it.
     
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  11. Lord Hellcat

    Lord Hellcat Gold Member Hellcat Car Club Gold Supporting Member HCC UK President HCC Charter Member

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    I run Shell VPower which is rated at 99, probably equates to your 93.
    It contains up to 5% ethanol so I guess a fuel stabiliser would be helpful
     
  12. Catless

    Catless Silver Member

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    My Cat has some ST KNK retard in the current cool weather even running 93 octane so I would not consider running less than 91 octane. I curious to see what happens when it is 95F out this summer.
    I tried one tank of 89 octane pure gas in my 09 SRT and the KNK retard was terrible. Even had LT KNK retard. Not good.
     
  13. Hemi Rocket

    Hemi Rocket Gold Member

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    Yeah... if you don't have enough octane the PCM is going to pull timing to stave off detonation... to keep the engine from beating itself up on the inside. Detonation is very tough on the engine :( and needs to be avoided at all costs!
     
  14. Jerrt trapp

    Jerrt trapp Silver Member

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    If you own a boat you know that ethanol is you enemy,as they may go unused for extended periods of time and that is where the phase separation will destroy a very expensive engine.I have 1 that is 2 years old and I have only put fuel in from 1 place,100% gas 91 octane and still use a mixture of things to keep moisture out of the fuel system,I have 2 hobbies that are very expensive,the engine on my boat cost as much as the engine in my hellcat,but I do not let my cat sit,if the sun is out I will drive my car.I also feel like I was 1 of the lucky ones when it comes to the cat,5200 miles not 1 problem,all of the panels line up very well,the paint is not perfect,but it is good enough to suit me.I do not use octane boosters at all in my cat,I think its a waste of money and possibly a problem very shortly down the road
     
  15. Hemi Rocket

    Hemi Rocket Gold Member

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    Yeah, a buddy of mine has a boat with twin 454's... I would avoid ethanol for fuel in a boat. He had problems with his, as he got moisture in the fuel over the winter and had phase separation. I don't have a problem using E10 in the Cat... I just try to avoid long storage with it. Never had a problem...knock on wood!
     

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