There is no tire that does it all. Drag radials and more

Discussion in 'SRT Hellcat Wheels and Tires' started by Tire God, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    I see countless posts about which tires will be best for my everyday street driving. #1 what type of driving do you prefer? Straight line drag race? Or the ability to take an overpass at 100+? There is no in between when we are talking about the maximum performance you can get out of your 700+HP godlike muscle cars. You have two good choices.
    1: you want to hook and go, so the answer would be a drag radial like Micky Thompson ET streets, Nittos 555R or NT05R ect.
    2: you want the instant steering response and the ability to pull about 1G around corners.
    There seems to be alot of confusion between these choices. First off drag radials have what's called a wrinkle sidewall. When you launch the car from a red light, the tires sidewall wrinkles and widens the tires contact patch to the ground for maximum traction. Then when you get going faster the tire shapes up (centrifugal force) and gets slightly taller and skinnier to decrease rolling resistance which makes you faster. Best example is to watch a top fuel dragsters tires in slowmo. The downside is that because the sidewalls are so flexible it gives you very little lateral traction and handling caricteristics. Drag radials have actually been outlawed in the 1/2 mile and mile events because of this. When someone loses control for whatever reason the tires are so flexible they can actually dismount from the rims. Don't need any more detail on that. Now if you are looking for the fastest lap times or street lap times lol, you would want a max performance summer tire. Best example is what comes on the ZR-1 vettes and the C7 Z06 with the Z07 package. The michelin pilot sport cup 2. Some other options are, nitto NT01, the new Bridgestone RE71-R (nicknamed the hoosier stones) Nitto NT05 (not the R), Toyo R888, Hankook rs3, Hankook TD, Dunlop star spec, BFG rival, ect...
    There is sort of a middle category that is a jack of all trades but a master of none. And thoes tires are what come on these types of cars. Pirelli Pzero, michelin pilot super sport, continental DW, BFG GeForce sport comp-2. These tires perform very well in both the straight line traction and lateral traction categories but no where near the R compound tires. But you do get slightly longer tread life(depending on the driver) and better wet traction as well. None of the above mentioned tires should ever be subjected to temps at or below freezing, because the tread compounds harden and you lose almost all flexibility and traction, not to mention there are very few or no sipes. You would need a set of all season or snow tires for that.
    To recap. Drag radials are not designed for cornering, and for safety reasons should not be used as such. But will provide the absolute max grip you can get off the line without putting non-street legal slicks on it. R compound competition tires are the best for handling without putting slicks on it. But won't get the same hook off the line as a drag radial. And if you want something in between that does everything decently put the pzero or super sports on it.
    Another note, if you choose a R compound you should get them heat cycled before use and also you need to bring them up to temperature before pushing the tires to the limit. Otherwise you risk sliding right off the track or if you are on the street... worse things happen. I hope this info helps you guys with your tire buying decisions. Please feel free to ask me any questions that have to do with tires, wheels, fitments, fitment issues, ect. I'm glad to help anyway I can. This post was directed more towards the misinformed people that weren't sure what they need or wanted out of a tire and of their cars.
     
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  2. Aarcuda

    Aarcuda Gold Member

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    thanks for the info!
     
  3. rich

    rich Silver Member

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    Feelings on MT street comp tires for everyday use? Have the factory Pirelli P-zero summer tires on now & don't drive it in the winter (or rain most of the time). Just planning on new set this summer.
     
  4. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    I have read good things. Bad things at drag strip. But I am assuming they are cheaper than the Michelin Super Sports. I hear they handle almost as good. I would definitely give it a try if they are lower price.
     
  5. HellScoot

    HellScoot Silver Member Hellcat Car Club HCC Charter Member

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    TireGod- agreed. My approach is to have a 17 or 18" rear and maybe something skinny up front as something dedicated for track use only. Just for track days, and only for track days in 1/4 racing. Don't think I am going to do autocross or serious road track events, there are better options as the Hellcat is a Muscle Car that is more of a street/strip machine, not a track star. This is debatable with heavy modifications but it is a heavy car to begin with. So in that I agree there are better suited tires for this. So for me anyway, the stocker P-Zero summers will sit wrapped up and stored, the other set of stock wheels I have with the 555Rs will be fine for street/maybe a track day and I do not drive in rain unless unplanned. I think tires are like shoes. You have different pairs for different uses or purpose. If more of us think of it in that way as you described there would be little debate.
     
  6. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    Exactly. And people don't need to freak out about rain so much. The vast majority of water is pushed out the back of the tire by the circumferential grooves. It's not rain that's dangerous, it is hitting a patch of standing water and the unexpected loss of traction. That being said I had the Nitto 555 on my VW years ago, I was in a very heavy rain and I could feel the car floating on top of the water at 40mph. So it's really situational. Hoosier's don't need to see water at all. But if you have a NT05R and get caught in a little rain on the way home, no big deal. Considering the traction and stability control, abs, on modern cars it's not a big deal.
     
  7. ArchGE

    ArchGE VIP Hellcat Member

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    T.G., wondering what your take is on some of the guys here putting 305's on the stock 9.5" rim. Thanks!
     
  8. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    Quick answer is no. I feel as I should made a long detailed thread about this. Safety comes first.
     
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  9. hellcatsonly

    hellcatsonly Rookie Hellcat Car Club HCC Charter Member

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    For build #281 I decided to go with the Continental Extreme Contact DWS6 27540ZR20 has great fit grip and reviews. I love them and not drag racing this beast need tires for the road and conditions. Good luck all. IMG_1105.JPG IMG_1106.JPG IMG_1111.JPG IMG_1128.JPG
     
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  10. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    Yes the DWS 06 is a great all season tire. For thoes of you looking for summer performance the DW is the choice.
    Dws=dry wet snow. DW= dry wet
     
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  11. DGatzby

    DGatzby Gold Member Hellcat Car Club HCC Charter Member Midwest Regional Pres.

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    So tire god, help explain which Pirelli tires of the 275's and 315's we should get. What are the specific design difference between tires listed for Ferrari, Porsche or others that are listed within these same sizes. It is fairly clear on the 275/40 as it has no model designation. I did try the 315/35 Ferarri on 10.5" wheels last year. Short answer I did not like them, I believe the Hellcat hated them for various reasons. They have been roasted appropriately and disposed of.

    I have a new set of NT05's with their 315's on the rear now and the car feels much more settled. With the big Pirelli I noticed problems with short radius low speed turns and a couple of times they spun up at high speed and I felt the car almost begin a death wobble in the rear. I never got a good grip from a stop, and frankly the rear felt like a skateboard most of the time. I road race the car on the OEM wheels/PZero 275/40 X4. When I changed back to the OEM wheels/tires after driving for a few thousand miles on the large tires it felt like a different car! Actually, it did real well IMO and of several others with its OEM equipment. Also the big Pirelli seems to have a huge shoulder compared to the Nitto's, which almost look compact in comparasion.
     
  12. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    I know it's confusing. But basically pirelli makes a tire that lots of vehicle manufacturers like. But they take their car to pirelli and tell them they want a slightly different variation of the same tire to do this or that, because of different suspension geometries ect..
    The best example i can give are the Porsche rated tires. In the Porsche manual it lists the different "N" designations and actually tells you the decibel level of each kind and other data from their extremely in depth testing. It comes down to slightly different variations of tread compounds and oils, to make it ride, handle, and possibly some very small difference in how the grooves are cut, which can change road noise. If you are asking me for the data sheets from the tire manufacturers I don't have that haha. But I'm sure pirelli will be happy to help. The most important thing when you change sizes, is that you get the overall diameter of the tires on both axles as close to OEM as possible as to not disturb the finely tuned beasts. Also not trying to squeeze a tire that is way to wide for the OE rim. That will ruin the handling and is a safety issue.
     
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  13. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    And remember the Pirelli starts with 10/32" of tread depth, and the Nitto NT05 I believe is 6/32". The Nitto is much softer and will out perform the Pirelli on the road course. Can't compare the two.
     
  14. Tire God

    Tire God Hellcat Member

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    The 275/40-20 PZero is the same size and tire the Camaro SS has had for years on the rear. I am 99% sure the one marked as GM is the same part number for you guys. But the majority of drivers couldn't tell the difference anyway between them. The difference is so small its crazy.
     
  15. DGatzby

    DGatzby Gold Member Hellcat Car Club HCC Charter Member Midwest Regional Pres.

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    Thanks, agreed.

    7/32. Agree also when all of my eight new PZeros are spent on the track, I am going to upgrade to mount up some 285/35 NT01's on all four corners. By then I hope to appreciate and feel the difference.

    I really like the PZero's on the closed track and for all around tires. I got these four NT05's for $1040 delivered! It was a choice of that or two 305/35 PZero's to fill out the rear for my street set.
     

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