Torque management work group and updates

Discussion in 'SRT Hellcat Performance' started by SRTFighter, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. SRTFighter

    SRTFighter Silver Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    I am creating this thread as a central place to go for updates on the torque management problem and hopefully ultimately a solution. It is also intended for people to toss out ideas to try and get around this problem.

    I am not making enough power to worry about it yet, but I do have a few thoughts of my own for a solution until the tuning companies can unlock the rest of the pcm.

    1st possible solution: we already know that the pcm dumps boost by opening the SC bypass valve to reroute the intake charge around the screws. Why not weld the bypass throttle body shut to permanently seal it, and add a blow off valve to the SC cover? If you don't want to cut up and weld the stock SC cover then a new sheet metal SC cover could be fabbed up. After that is accomplished then don't forget to unplug the bypass throttle body connector and add a resistor so that you don't get any CELs.


    2nd possible solution: How does the car calculate hp and tq in the first place? Maybe something could be added to trick the car into thinking it is making less tq than it actually is. Or somehow capping the tq that the car can read.

    Thoughts? Don't be affraid to toss out an idea. Maybe you might already have a solution and don't know it. If we all work together I'm sure we can make this problem a minor speed bump.
     
  2. HighHorseman

    HighHorseman VIP Hellcat Member Hellcat Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    HHP in Smyrna, DE
    Vehicle:
    Charger SRT 392
    If you want to go full throttle, a lot, and only full throttle, you could weld the bypass valve closed. You'd be really fast. But eventually you might want to stop going full throttle or need to pull over for fuel or for the occasional cop and only having full boost under wide open throttle whenever the engine is running could complicate things.

    As far as torque management issues are concerned in the PCM, I will abstain from the conversation. I think you guys are creating an issue where an issue does not exist.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Viper04

    Viper04 Senior Hellcat Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    Charger SRT Hellcat
    I think what he is referring too is this posted by Top Cat and a few other member have also stated. It seem if you go over 19lb of boost the PCM as some issue. Not sure but could be due to the map not being able to read over that, which as happen to other platforms. Maybe a 2 bar maps sensor could be the fix.

    Expectations of High Horse Power builds and limitations
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. SNSTER

    SNSTER Senior Hellcat Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    Are you saying the bypass valve has to function in order for the car to idle and run at cruising speeds?
     
  5. SRTFighter

    SRTFighter Silver Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    Maybe I did not explain my idea thoroughly enough. The blow off valve will take the place of the bypass valve which can be set to open at different PSIs. More importantly it will hold boost while WOT and release at lower PSIs while partial to no throttle. That is why the stock bypass throttle body can be welded shut and thus bypassed. The whole point here is to remove the PCM's ability to control boost since so far to my knowledge it can not be controlled yet through diablosport or hp tuners.


    I think you are on to something with the map sensor part. Josh, is the map sensor able to be rescaled on the HC? Maybe adding a 2 or 3 bar sensor with rescale is all that is the problem?

    Btw...yes that thread is what first clued me in to this wall that all the highest horsepower cars are running into.

    Your sarcasm is not appreciated. Any helpful information you have to add is welcomed.
     
  6. SNSTER

    SNSTER Senior Hellcat Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    I was not trying to be sarcastic. I was only asking because I do not know?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Sepipr21

    Sepipr21 Silver Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    I dont think this thread its going to end. Nowhere. This is a topic that its not supposed go be talk in public, it seems anybody mentions anything about torque management and boom, we just hear that it doesnt exist. But we know it does. I dont get the mystery.
    Yesterday a high HP HC owner commented that he did not wanted to discuss the matter because people get mad. And he has one of the fastest HCs...
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. cole3986

    cole3986 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    903
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    Josh,

    I agree with you, the problem is in the TCM (Transmission Control Module) not the PCM. Thanks for the clarification ;);););)o_Oo_Oo_O
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. cole3986

    cole3986 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    903
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    The fastest hellcat is a boost car, I have 940 on with a 50 shot at HHP dyno. At the track, I cannot use. Eric dyno'd 970 HP at HHP, at the track he cannot use. Anyone saying that there is no problem is on drugs.

    I ran boost only in Modern Hemi Event in Virginia because of the problem, and I think I had either the 2nd or 3rd fastest pass there at 6.19 in the 1/8 mile. Ed ran faster and maybe Top Cat.

    Why is it that the fastest Cats are all stuck at the same place? 939 HP Dyno.jpg 979 HP dyno.jpg
     
  10. Racist Cat

    Racist Cat Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,098
    Likes Received:
    379
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    Standalone TCM.

    Run a manual transmission pcm/ECM, and make the Trans shift by itself.


    I think the answer will come in a piggy back module that plugs in line to the Trans harness and has different levels of programming. Pass through, street, track, dyno, 1/4mile, standing mile
     
  11. SRTFighter

    SRTFighter Silver Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    If the problem is in the TCM, then the M6 guys would be unaffected since the manual transmission is not computer controlled. Are there any M6 guys out there that are making those power levels that can confirm it is a problem on M6 cars too? If it is confirmed to an A8 only problem then the fix would be to switch to a manual valve body so the trans could be manually shifted again.

    I don't believe this to be the case though, and I believe it to be more of a tuning issue. There might be parts of the TCM involved but I don't think its much more than reading the torque that the car is making.
     
  12. Sepipr21

    Sepipr21 Silver Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    All the issues I have heard are all A8...
     
  13. SRTFighter

    SRTFighter Silver Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    Tammie what M6 cars are making the most hp/tq? You are making some decent power aren't you?

    Waiting for any high power M6 car owners to chime in here......
     
  14. cole3986

    cole3986 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    903
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    Bubba,

    It is a A8 problem, the M6 cars gotta deal with the clutch.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. cole3986

    cole3986 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    903
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Vehicle:
    Challenger SRT Hellcat
    FYI- the highest posted dynos are M6 cars. Usually 1,000 and change.
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

hellcat boost bypass opening