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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello! New to the forums!

About 6 months ago I traded my 2016 Challanger Hellcat for a 2019 Charger Hellcat. The Challanger whent relatively stock its whole life, now I'm looking to start modifying my Charger. Of course starting with exhaust and widebody work. These newer cars puzzle me, for I converted to the hellcats from working on my old 5th gen Camaros and GM stuff.

My first step is to install SW cat delete pipes and do a muffler delete and weld in place the vibrant 1795s (not messing with the cutback yet on the valves until later). I am going to also install the vibrant 02 extenders to hopefully fool the 02 sensors to not pop a CEL before I send it up to Reno to get pully and injector, driveline, and e85 tune job done, which brings me to my question.

If the vibrant 02 extensions fail to fool the car and it pops a CEL, will the car go into limp mode? Or is it like the older stuff I've worked on and the CEL won't do anything other than cry about the 02 sensor? Only reason why I ask, is if it does pop the CEL and it doesnt harm the car or limp it, I was just going to run it and clear it until it goes to the shop for the pulley and E85 install and tune.

Amature question, but I'm new to the world of modifying the hellcats and Mopar (other than my old 5.9 cummins) and didn't see anything posted or in the discussions about the secondary 02 sensors putting the car into limp mode if they pop the CEL.

Thank you for the Time and suggestions!
 

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There are members who can answer your questions for what you are thinking about.

I originally had Cat delete because of Dragracing and using race gas.

To make it easy. This past year I had the AWE track edition installed.
I love the Old School sound馃槑
No Tuning required .....no CEL popped.

Linda :)
 

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2020 Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack.
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Have not come across anyone reporting the engine entering limp mode from an #2 (post cat) O2 sensor error.

One of my previous cars had a loose converter "brick" and would every once in a while trigger a P0430 error. There was never any indication of any issues, no untoward behavior, from the engine when this error popped up.

A problem with a #2 O2 sensor error is this can affect fueling. The engine controller will recognize something's wrong and it will change fueling in an attempt to get the #2 O2 sensor voltages it expects. This fueling may be less than ideal.

However, under hard acceleration the engine controller is allowed to ignore the #2 O2 sensor voltages (and from this converter efficiency) and fuel the engine in order to satisfy the torque demanded by the driver.

As an aside it can help to look at the engine as an exhaust gas producer intended to produce exhaust gas most effectively processed by the converter to reduce more harmful exhaust gas compounds into less harmful compounds.

A converter is most effective/efficient in this regard with an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1. The engine controller strives to deliver this mixture to the engine so the (healthy) engine then produces exhaust which is most effectively processed by the converter. The #2 O2 sensor is used by the controller to monitor converter efficiency.

If efficiency falls off the engine controller will attempt by changing the air fuel mixture to get the efficiency back. It tries pretty hard. If the converter is truly bad the auto maker is on the hook to replace the converter as these are under federal emissions warranty for 8 years, 80K miles.

Needless to say the automaker will via the engine controller try everything it can to try to eliminate the converter as the source of the problem.

The CEL lets the driver know there is a problem and the car is (probably) no longer emissions compliant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There are members who can answer your questions for what you are thinking about.

I originally had Cat delete because of Dragracing and using race gas.

To make it easy. This past year I had the AWE track edition installed.
I love the Old School sound馃槑
No Tuning required .....no CEL popped.

Linda :)
Awesome! Thank you for the suggestion I just might look into that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Have not come across anyone reporting the engine entering limp mode from an #2 (post cat) O2 sensor error.

One of my previous cars had a loose converter "brick" and would every once in a while trigger a P0430 error. There was never any indication of any issues, no untoward behavior, from the engine when this error popped up.

A problem with a #2 O2 sensor error is this can affect fueling. The engine controller will recognize something's wrong and it will change fueling in an attempt to get the #2 O2 sensor voltages it expects. This fueling may be less than ideal.

However, under hard acceleration the engine controller is allowed to ignore the #2 O2 sensor voltages (and from this converter efficiency) and fuel the engine in order to satisfy the torque demanded by the driver.

As an aside it can help to look at the engine as an exhaust gas producer intended to produce exhaust gas most effectively processed by the converter to reduce more harmful exhaust gas compounds into less harmful compounds.

A converter is most effective/efficient in this regard with an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1. The engine controller strives to deliver this mixture to the engine so the (healthy) engine then produces exhaust which is most effectively processed by the converter. The #2 O2 sensor is used by the controller to monitor converter efficiency.

If efficiency falls off the engine controller will attempt by changing the air fuel mixture to get the efficiency back. It tries pretty hard. If the converter is truly bad the auto maker is on the hook to replace the converter as these are under federal emissions warranty for 8 years, 80K miles.

Needless to say the automaker will via the engine controller try everything it can to try to eliminate the converter as the source of the problem.

The CEL lets the driver know there is a problem and the car is (probably) no longer emissions compliant.
Awesome thanks for the information and the in depth of the sensors and how it reacts to the car. As long as the CEL doesn't trip abnormal behaviors like you stated (if the the o2 extenders fail), then it will be good to go until I get it tuned and dialed in with the future mod installs. Thank you!
 

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2020 Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack.
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Awesome thanks for the information and the in depth of the sensors and how it reacts to the car. As long as the CEL doesn't trip abnormal behaviors like you stated (if the the o2 extenders fail), then it will be good to go until I get it tuned and dialed in with the future mod installs. Thank you!
Don't believe the #2 O2 sensor errors, if any, will cause the engine controller to enter limp mode. That is not a response I have ever come across.

You are to put it bluntly messing with a pretty complex feedback system. The #1 O2 sensors let the engine controller know the engine is being correctly fueled while the #2 O2 sensors let the engine controller know the converters are operating at the desired efficiency.

As a side note the EPA routinely tests cars to ensure they are compliant to ensure even if there is no specific emission testing required by a number of states there is sufficient confidence the cars are compliant.

So the automaker wants to detect if the vehicle is no longer compliant and let the driver know.

To try to fool the engine controller with extenders or in some way get the engine controller to ignore the #2 O2 sensor readings is quite the undertaking. And doing this while not materially affecting the engine's fueling, which is critical for any engine but especially for a supercharged engine that already nominally produces 707hp and does so reliably which means it is pretty accurately fueled to begin with will be some feat.
 
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