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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m reaching out for some opinions any advice would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from a Three Hour road trip with my Scat and experienced difficulties going into 5th form 4th it would grind . Eventually it just quit and I tired to convince myself well maybe you just kept hitting a tooth or something simple like that . Even tho I know I wasn’t . Anyways I get home go to back it in the drive way and as soon as I go to put it in reverse it starts grinding about my 3rd attempt it went in normal . Did some research and seen where people said put it first first then reverse and that does cause it not to grind I’m not sure what’s going on here possibly the synco ? I seen where one guy talked about problems with going into 5th from 4th then his reverse starting grinding. I just bout this car almost a month ago . It’s a 2015 with 64K miles on it as of now . Has a 3K mile or 90 day power train warranty I hope they will fix the issue . Also had problems coming out of first gear a lot after it was parked even on flat land very difficult to come out of first not when driving tho but now sometimes at slower speeds like 5-12 mph it is more difficult then it should be .
 

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My 2010 Challenger RT has some issues like what you mentioned. It started off giving me problems not going into gear when going from second to third at WOT. Then it couldn’t go into reverse, it wouldn’t grind but it just wouldn’t go into gear. From an old ‘04 TJ I had, that was a common problem and putting it in first first and then reverse like you mentioned solved that issue in the Jeep and the RT. Lastly, also had a hard time taking it out of first at low speeds and sometimes hard going into it. Almost had to pull with all my weight to get it out of gear. I figured the tranny needed to be rebuilt but I did a long shot and changed the oil twice back to back after 50-100 miles and it’s a lot better now. It’s now my work car, so I drive completely normal in it. I don’t dog on it at all and all those issues are damn near non-existent. It’s worth a shot but ultimately, I honestly think a rebuild is the only way to properly fix it.
 

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Something akin to the throwout bearing, that's my guess. Since it's doing it across multiple gears, it's likely not a syncro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My 2010 Challenger RT has some issues like what you mentioned. It started off giving me problems not going into gear when going from second to third at WOT. Then it couldn’t go into reverse, it wouldn’t grind but it just wouldn’t go into gear. From an old ‘04 TJ I had, that was a common problem and putting it in first first and then reverse like you mentioned solved that issue in the Jeep and the RT. Lastly, also had a hard time taking it out of first at low speeds and sometimes hard going into it. Almost had to pull with all my weight to get it out of gear. I figured the tranny needed to be rebuilt but I did a long shot and changed the oil twice back to back after 50-100 miles and it’s a lot better now. It’s now my work car, so I drive completely normal in it. I don’t dog on it at all and all those issues are damn near non-existent. It’s worth a shot but ultimately, I honestly think a rebuild is the only way to properly fix it.
Change the oil as in the trans fluid ? Just making sure I’m following and thank you for the insight
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Something akin to the throwout bearing, that's my guess. Since it's doing it across multiple gears, it's likely not a syncro.
It quit doing it from 4th to 5th but the. Once I went for reverse it started grinding . This is my first experience with the issue . Hoping the warranty covers it . Considering replacing the clutch
 

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Change the oil as in the trans fluid ? Just making sure I’m following and thank you for the insight
I’m sorry yes, I meant the fluid. Used royal purple synchromax. Changed the fluid, drove 50-100 miles and it was better right away but went ahead and did it a second time. I’d definitely take it in to see if the warranty will cover it first. There’s been occasions where changing the fluid has voided the warranty. If warranty doesn’t cover it, changing the fluid will hopefully get you by until you have the funds to get it looked at and fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I’m sorry yes, I meant the fluid. Used royal purple synchromax. Changed the fluid, drove 50-100 miles and it was better right away but went ahead and did it a second time. I’d definitely take it in to see if the warranty will cover it first. There’s been occasions where changing the fluid has voided the warranty. If warranty doesn’t cover it, changing the fluid will hopefully get you by until you have the funds to get it looked at and fixed.
Thank you very much
 

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Yes it did , also it went into reverse from neutral but have to go really slow . But yes it does go in without a problem if I take from 1st gear then into reverse .
That’s good, let us know if warranty covers it.
A while back, a coworker completely lost his reverse gear and 1-3rd in a 4 gear tranny. He had to park at the back of the parking lot longways across three spots and take off in 4th every time. The struggle was real for him lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
That’s good, let us know if warranty covers it.
A while back, a coworker completely lost his reverse gear and 1-3rd in a 4 gear tranny. He had to park at the back of the parking lot longways across three spots and take off in 4th every time. The struggle was real for him lol
Lol yeah let’s none of that comes this cars way lol new Update as well just hoped in and I can be In neutral and go into reverse no at somewhat of a more faster rate then before Just can’t go normal fast
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That’s good, let us know if warranty covers it.
A while back, a coworker completely lost his reverse gear and 1-3rd in a 4 gear tranny. He had to park at the back of the parking lot longways across three spots and take off in 4th every time. The struggle was real for him lol
Have to go slow can feel the notches in it tho and sometimes it clunks when engaging reverse now if it doesn’t grind
 

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I have great respect for manual fans, but unfortunately many manual drivers do not have respect for the transmission. I think you may have found the reason why the original owner sold it, these are the risks every used car buyer faces, not to mention the HP exponent!

I agree with the fluid change, I had good luck with Royal Purple in my GTO, but I think what you have requires more attention, perhaps a complete trans service. When my GTO was old, I considered replacing the synchros, clutch, pressure plate, throwout brg, slave cylinder, everything that could be done once you went through the trouble of pulling the trans. I am not as familiar with the workings of the HC or SP M6 but I assume if you follow these lines you could assure everything would be back to 100%, but it will cost waaaay more than the $2500 I was quoted for the GTO.

I would suggest you put as much as possible on the seller and warranty, but consider partially funding the task to bridge the gap between "fixing" and "making it 100%".

Good luck and keep us informed!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have great respect for manual fans, but unfortunately many manual drivers do not have respect for the transmission. I think you may have found the reason why the original owner sold it, these are the risks every used car buyer faces, not to mention the HP exponent!

I agree with the fluid change, I had good luck with Royal Purple in my GTO, but I think what you have requires more attention, perhaps a complete trans service. When my GTO was old, I considered replacing the synchros, clutch, pressure plate, throwout brg, slave cylinder, everything that could be done once you went through the trouble of pulling the trans. I am not as familiar with the workings of the HC or SP M6 but I assume if you follow these lines you could assure everything would be back to 100%, but it will cost waaaay more than the $2500 I was quoted for the GTO.

I would suggest you put as much as possible on the seller and warranty, but consider partially funding the task to bridge the gap between "fixing" and "making it 100%".

Good luck and keep us informed!
Thank you for all the feedback I’ve never joined a group like this before but I figured I would give this page a shot always seemed like somebody had some good information on here ! I am considering replacing everything as well just be on the safe side . Dealer said it sounded like a synco so if that’s the case I’ll let them do that part and I will change the clutch out and put a brand new kit in . I heard the hell cat clutch bolts right up as long as the count is the same on the fly wheel any thoughts on that.
 

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Also, see if you can bleed the slave cylinder. I am not familiar with the HC (mine is still too new) but in most cars you can bleed the slave cylinder just like calipers. Let it flow, not just to get air out, but also to flush out the old contaminated fluid that has been in there for 6-7 years.

I am always a fan of addressing the easy/cheap potential solutions first, sometimes you get lucky!
 

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It’s not a synchro if it sticks coming out of gear. You can test the clutch by putting it in 4th at 20mph and floor it… see if the clutch slips. The slave cylinder/throwout bearing is bad if the car has issues across multiple gear ranges and if it feels like the clutch isn’t fully engaging.

That’s why i suggested that this may be the issue. A 1st-R synchro isn’t going to affect the 4th to 5th and 5th-6th gear shifts. It’s odd to suddenly get multiple bad synchros.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It’s not a synchro if it sticks coming out of gear. You can test the clutch by putting it in 4th at 20mph and floor it… see if the clutch slips. The slave cylinder/throwout bearing is bad if the car has issues across multiple gear ranges and if it feels like the clutch isn’t fully engaging.

That’s why i suggested that this may be the issue. A 1st-R synchro isn’t going to affect the 4th to 5th and 5th-6th gear shifts. It’s odd to suddenly get multiple bad synchros.
Very helpful insight, it only did the 4th /5th grind a few times then quit like never happened which I thought was strange . I will try the 4th gear at 20mph tomorrow and give everyone a update !
 

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Very helpful insight, it only did the 4th /5th grind a few times then quit like never happened which I thought was strange . I will try the 4th gear at 20mph tomorrow and give everyone a update !
One helpful thing to note... this is another word of wisdom from my dearly departed grandpa:

"It's a car, dummy. It don't never fix itself."

Cars can have intermittent issues, but there's a reason why you typically notice problems with a gearbox in the lower gears. They spin faster and require more force from the clutch to stop (so you can shift). In my 70 429SCJ Torino, I could shift that Muncie gearbox 4spd car without the clutch between 3rd and 4th. It sounded horrible, but you could bounce it off the synchros a couple of times and it would go into place. I learned that after blowing the clutch out and drove it 40mi home on only 3rd and 4th. This is because there transmission gears are rotating much slower as the ratio drops. So, when a transmission starts to go bad, whether it's the clutch, linkage misalignment (old cars), slave cylinder or throwout bearing, you'll almost always see problems first in the R, 1st, or 2nd gear range. You almost always blow synchros between 1st/2nd (or R-1 on most 6 speeds) as they're the most used and most abused. R is another common one because it's a very small gear and will have a very high ratio similar to 1st gear. It's very rare to have initial synchro problems in the latter gears prior to the lower gears unless the parts or assembly worksmanship are defective.

Because more force is needed to brake the transmission for shifting (clutch) in the lower gears, they're usually the first to start grinding. At a very high level, when you push in the clutch pedal, the pressure plate mashes the clutch against the flywheel, which results in the transmission's input shaft to begin slowing. If the slave cylinders, pressure plate, clutch, or throwout bearing are not in good working order, it becomes more difficult for the transmission to slow the input shaft. The input shaft has to be slowed more for R, 1, 2 than for 3, 4, 5, 6. Hence why you will generally get a bad R, 1, or 2 first. If multiple gears aren't working, especially the higher level gears, this is indicative of a part failure that is common to all. Each gear has it's own sleeve, hub and synchro. So, when 1 gear has problems but all others are fine... your problem is localized. In your case, it seems like it has problems across a broad spectrum (even if the 5th gear issue is minor and sporadic). Thus, the throwout bearing, slave cylinder or clutch is a likely culprit.

So, back to my granddad. "It's a car, dummy. It don't never fix itself." Your problem is not going to magically fix itself. You might luck out and have bad oil in the gearbox, which is where you get temperature based performance issues. But again, the 5th gear sporadic grinding thing and not 2nd or 3rd isn't what you'd see with a lubrication problem. As I mentioned before, the gears spin faster in 2nd than they do in 5th, thus a lubrication problem would almost always present itself in 2nd and sometimes in 5th.

This issue of yours is doing my head in, as it is presenting in R and in 4th-5th. Generally, you should also be having problems from 1st to 2nd as well if the clutch or one of the connected parts are bad. The fact that you have to shift slowly into R tells me that the output shaft isn't stopping during the idle gear, as it should. This almost entirely rules out a bad synchro as being the problem (as I don't believe your M6 has a synchro on reverse, as most manual transmissions use a 3-gear system to drive the output shaft in the opposite direction). Thus, it sounds more to me like a clutch or slave/throwout bearing.

If the throwout bearing is going bad, you can hear it. When you depress the clutch, it kinda sings, in a muted sort of way. Ideally, there should be no audible sound coming from the transmission at all. As the throwout bearing goes bad, it will start to make a noise. It's difficult to explain, but it starts off sort of like a quiet rushing noise (like moving a cardboard box fast across a concrete floor), but will start to make a more familiar "bearing whine" sound as it gets REALLY bad. If everything is totally quiet, it could be the clutch, the hydraulic system that engages the clutch, or the pressure plate. A bad slave cylinder usually presents itself when the car is hard to shift OUT of gear (as it is primarily there to aid in the disengaging of the clutch). I don't think this is your issue.

Sorry for the rant, it's 3am here and I can't sleep. Any factual inaccuracies or content too deep off the nerd ledge are hopefully not too bad :)
 
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