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I have the 180 t-stat sitting here on the shelf. My concern is that I read some guys were throwing a code due to not warming up sufficiently. I have no intention to re-flash or mod my engine in any way, but I do like the idea of running cooler. Yes, I know that in stop and go driving, the fan will control the actual temps....


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I have the 180 t-stat sitting here on the shelf. My concern is that I read some guys were throwing a code due to not warming up sufficiently. I have no intention to re-flash or mod my engine in any way, but I do like the idea of running cooler. Yes, I know that in stop and go driving, the fan will control the actual temps....


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No code for me and I thought the same thing then I saw how easy these are to change out and thought if I get dash light very easy to change back.

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In cold weather, like 40-50F some cars throw a code for not getting up to a specified temperature in a specified amount of time if not tuned. If you garage your car it's less likely to occur and if it does just clear it and move on.
 

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I spoke with the engineers concerning a few aspects of this engine. They told me that not bringing the engine up to operating temp is one problem and another is luging the engine is another. Lower than 2, 000 rpm is luging. You can go to the Dodge web site and ask these guys questions. I was told to leave the t stat alone. More info I ever got from GM>
 

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0.0002" is irrelevant.
It is NOT irrelevant if you want to keep the car. People that talk like this do NOT respect this car and your investment! And then what???

After the engine is used up and using oil and potentially burning oil out the tailpipe, it's traded in and sold to a totally unsuspecting new owner who has always dreamed of owning a Cat only to find out that it's been abused, "tuned", computer unlocked with zero warranty and burning oil (among other issues). Really??

Some in this thread have mentioned increased ring and cylinder wall wear. This IS the main issue due to insufficient thermal expansion/operating dimensions of the engine block. Anyone denying this fact is just not connected to negative effects of running a lower stat, and they are damaging the motor!

If you take your Cat to the dealer for oil consumption and they find a non-factory stat, your warranty could very well be denied.

Proper engine coolant temp also helps boil off crankcase moisture; it's not just oil temps!

And then there is the discussion about the proper stat providing proper heat conduction from the engine to the coolant by controlling coolant flow rates.

Don't run a lower stat.... EVER!
 

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Hopefully Rockster can shed some light on the duration (mileage) these wear differences were measured? Not sure why so many are hostile about this? Interesting concept nonetheless.
 

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Hopefully Rockster can shed some light on the duration (mileage) these wear differences were measured? Not sure why so many are hostile about this? Interesting concept nonetheless.
It is a silly modification that essentially has the engine running around cold most of the time. The oil is below its working temperature and if the RPMs are taken too high on essentially a cold engine the oil may not flow as readily to the critical bearings as they require. Remember the oil film heats up considerably in the bearing and this hot oil must be expelled and replaced by the cooler oil. If the oil is too cold the oil can't flow in and force the hot oil out before it gets too hot and breaks down.

If the engine is pushed hard the coolant temperature peak is a factor of the engine's heat output and the cooling system's ability to deal with it. At some point both the low temperature T-stat and the factory T-stat will both be fully open and at this point neither plays any further role in coolant temperature. The coolant temperature will increase until there is equilibrium reached between what the engine generates and what the cooling system can deal with.

If you want to keep the peak coolant temperature down and help the engine run at a more constant temperature leave the factory T-stat installed and instead install more cooling capacity. Or if supported consider modifying the cooling fan stages to be a bit more aggressive as the coolant temperature goes up.

Low temperature T-stat advocates are essentially the flat earthers of the automotive world and beyond help.
My goal is to try to help the newcomers from being lead down wrong path.
 

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It is a silly modification that essentially has the engine running around cold most of the time. The oil is below its working temperature and if the RPMs are taken too high on essentially a cold engine the oil may not flow as readily to the critical bearings as they require. Remember the oil film heats up considerably in the bearing and this hot oil must be expelled and replaced by the cooler oil. If the oil is too cold the oil can't flow in and force the hot oil out before it gets too hot and breaks down.

If the engine is pushed hard the coolant temperature peak is a factor of the engine's heat output and the cooling system's ability to deal with it. At some point both the low temperature T-stat and the factory T-stat will both be fully open and at this point neither plays any further role in coolant temperature. The coolant temperature will increase until there is equilibrium reached between what the engine generates and what the cooling system can deal with.

If you want to keep the peak coolant temperature down and help the engine run at a more constant temperature leave the factory T-stat installed and instead install more cooling capacity. Or if supported consider modifying the cooling fan stages to be a bit more aggressive as the coolant temperature goes up.

Low temperature T-stat advocates are essentially the flat earthers of the automotive world and beyond help.
My goal is to try to help the newcomers from being lead down wrong path.
Good info. Whether a lower t-stat is beneficial or not...who really knows? Not sure why this discussion results in name calling? I appreciate the intellectual discussion and enjoy all points of view.

Sincerely,

Thermostat Nazi
 

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There are a number of charts out there detailing wear rates by temperature. Virtually all of them agree that there is very little difference in wear rates between 180* and 200* engine temps. It is surprising that it seems that many people still do not know that the vast majority of engine wear happens at cold start up, not during operation at acceptable temps. Which is why I have an Accu-Sump that I use as a pre-luber at startup on the Cuda. Pre-lubing the engine at startup does not eliminate all of the wear, it just reduces some of it, especially given that the car does not get driven daily or sometimes even weekly. This is not an argument for installing a 180* thermostat, just noting that 180* engine temp would not be the biggest contributor to wear if it were installed.

Just one typical chart for reference:
HOTRODSRJ’s COOLING TIPS Operating temperature vs power and longevity!
 

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So much bad info being posted as gospel. Its emissions folks that's it end of story. Keep your factory 203 thermo if you want and let the car pull timing due to increased ECT. The rest of us will be enjoying mo powah :)
 

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Low temperature T-stat advocates are essentially the flat earthers of the automotive world and beyond help.
My goal is to try to help the newcomers from being lead down wrong path.
So you’re basically calling out just about every tuner who is a sponsor on this forum as someone who is ignorant since they all have lower t-stats as part of their packages?? I’m trying to learn here and I don’t know what’s right but if I have to choose between the opinion of a forum member and that of just about every tuner I’ve researched I think I’m siding with all those tuners. You gotta give me more...am I ignorant for this logic???
 

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I just installed the 180 thermostat and it’s 86 dgf and 63 percent humidity
I’m stop and go traffic the etc went up to 206 and oil temp 214 once I got on the back roads coolant temperatures never went below 185 and oil temperature only dropped as low as 198 , I’m racing it tonight and like speedy said I don’t want it pulling any timing , and great thing about it is I can’t switch the thermostat out at my shop on Monday in minutes as you know it’s so easy and because of using a bag to catch the coolant it’s no mess , so why not just switch the t-stats out when the weather changes

P.S. mines stock and no cel ever came on
 

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So you’re basically calling out just about every tuner who is a sponsor on this forum as someone who is ignorant since they all have lower t-stats as part of their packages?? I’m trying to learn here and I don’t know what’s right but if I have to choose between the opinion of a forum member and that of just about every tuner I’ve researched I think I’m siding with all those tuners. You gotta give me more...am I ignorant for this logic???
What does Dodge do to keep the engine intake temperature down? Why not run a low temp T-Stat? Or even one that can be controlled by the engine controller via an electrical signal?

Cause lowering the coolant temperature helps not and is actually harmful to the engine.

For models/engines for which Dodge elects to offer some "help" in the temperature department Dodge in some models offers a chiller. This is used to cool the intake yet the rest of the engine stays nice and warm and in uniform manner. Not a good idea to surround the cylinders with cool coolant which can have them shrink down and reduce the clearance of the space between the cylinder wall and the piston. That's asking for scuffed cylinders, broken rings.

A chiller is a much more expensive/complicated system than an electronically controlled T-stat. But the chiller puts the cooling right where it wants to be. The problem with a low temperature T-stat is it cools what should not be cooled.

Watch the videos of the cars being used on road courses. Often the coolant temperature is displayed and in the videos I've watched the coolant gets to 240F to 245F range. In this case the low temperature T-stat is of no help. It is the cooling system's capacity. It is sufficient to reach equilibrium with engine's heat output around the 240F level. In this case both the factory T-stat and the low temp T-stat are wide open.

One car owner mentioned the coolant temperature in his comments and to his credit he didn't mention a low temperature T-stat but more cooling capacity to address the "high" coolant temperature.
 
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