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What does Dodge do to keep the engine intake temperature down? Why not run a low temp T-Stat? Or even one that can be controlled by the engine controller via an electrical signal?
Based on what I’ve read from several others here...Dodge doesn’t run a lower one to keep emissions in check. Is that not correct?
 

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Hello,

What is the impact of installing a 180 degree thermostat and dropping the engine's running temperatures ~20 degrees? How does it affect the computer and tuning if the car never reaches the (seemingly) high 210+ degree temp range?

My car is stock, no engine mods. But I live in Texas and our 100+ degree days are getting longer and much more frequent. I have historically put 180 degree thermostats in other performance vehicles I've owned, but I just wanted to see if any experts here had opinions one way or the other.

Thanks
I was just going to say when I saw you're from Texas it depends on the climate you live in. Definitely the 180 is excellent. I'm in Florida and it's hot as s***. Car runs different if I'm running it during the day compared to at night to the point where sometimes you have to make adjustments on your tune. I have 1200 horsepower and with E85 the temperature can definitely be a b****. There's nothing wrong with your car running 190 when you're cruising. Believe me keep the 180 thermostat in. Not to mention I've got a b Woody heat exchanger still gets hot especially during summer. You're not going to have any problems with a stock Hellcat and a 180 thermostat. You start getting on that throttle you'll hit 210 easy then she'll start backing down to 190 and if you just have a tune / unlocked PCM you not going to have to worry about making any adjustments but the cooler the air the more dense more combustion you will get. I'm curious since you're in Texas what is your average intake temp IAT? I was idling and it was a hundred degrees sitting at the stoplight for like 5 minutes and mine went up to 156. And that's with the legmaker. Actually I'm switching back to my stock box I'm just putting in a drop in air filter. I don't care what anybody tells you but when it comes to cold air intakes you may get a few horsepower at wot because you're getting a little bit more air but 90% of its for sound and believe me they don't keep it that cold is the hellcats hot engines especially when you start modifying
 

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It causing damage is BS LOL. I have a 170 deg thermostat in my supercharged 4Runner for 12 years, had a 180 in my old car Orange Krush for 10, and have had a 180 in the Hellcat for 2-3 years. The only side effect is better engine coolant temps. It will help even with a stock car while driving, but you'll get the most benefit from adjusting the tune in regards to when the fan speed up.

In 95 degree F ambient my car never goes above 192 and that's with just a moderate fan speed change. On my race tune I run the fans faster and it never goes above 188.
So if I put a 180 thermostat in my stock Hellcat is there any chance that it will mess with my warranty? And if not is it worth it still.
 

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What I am wondering is does the engine computer freak out if higher temperatures are encountered? Does it start fire-hosing fuel into the cylinders to emergency cool the engine? Does it dial Dodge as you are driving? What response is there from the engine computer to higher temperatures that its normal range? Does it start subtracting power, limiting throttle opening, retarding spark, ordering bags of ice cubes delivered by Skip the Dishes, etc?

Does it just flip on all the cooling fans, or does it get more aggressive? What if I'm driving over the Grapevine with four linemen from the LA Rams in the car? Will I suddenly see instantaneous mpg plummet to 0.3 as it hoses down my pistons with excess fuel to drop the engine coolant temperatures down to "normal" levels?

Please excuse the humor. I am really interested in knowing this answer.
 

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I've been scouring the forums for months and this topic finally made me create my account. So here is my 2 cents.

Most of you are wrong when you state that the thermostat is designed for emissions. It is not. At colder temperatures, your vehicle will produce more hydrocarbons. At higher temperatures, your vehicle will produce nox. At colder temperatures the computer will run a rich mixture to increase exhaust temperatures to activate the elements in the catalytic converter. Once the exhaust temperatures reaches proper cat temps the computer backs off to a more reasonable fuel mixture. That way the cat can break down nox more efficiently. So engine temperature variation between 195 to 205 has no effect on catalytic performance. Fuel consumption regulations has no effect on the production of the hellcat models "essentially" because dodge makes enough base model chargers and challenger to stay within epa regulations.

Now there is a lot of confusion between old timers, old muscle car builders, new age tuners, etc... Older vehicles were built with older technology, older process, and older materials. The manufacturer process of newer vehicles are so extremely different than the past. Oil and coolant and the detergent found in them are so far advanced now. So newer vehicles have safer and higher operation temperatures. "For example; to clean diesel injectors back in the day, techs use to run ATF fluid through the fuel system. Now you just buy injector cleaner."

Now, you will say a cooler motor will produce more power. That is a yes and a no. The biggest effect is engine bay temperatures. Obviously, a hot motor increases engine bay temperatures, which increases intake air temperatures. That's why a substantial upgrade is always a bigger intercooler, meth injection, nitrous spray, e85, etc... that way you can keep air temperatures down, to run more air and fuel in the combustion chamber and to reduce the risk of knock and pre-destination. Running a cooler motor also helps with this. That way you can run more advanced timing and a leaner air mixture. To do this, you generally need more than just a thermostat.

Now, for how well built the hellcat is and the computer technology that will pull timing. A cooler thermostat is unnecessary. Especially while driving the vehicle. The only reason to install a low temp thermostat is for dyno tuning or racing. Reason being, when you're dyno tuning, you're getting very little airflow due to being inside on a dyno. And for drag racing, you vehicle is spending less time traveling and more time idling. So you want a cooler engine bay when you pull up to the line. Track racing, you may spend more time drafting behind other vehicles. So you will experience higher temps while traveling and less air flow through the rad.

Now for the grand finale. For street driving, it is completely unnecessary. You will lose more power due to humidity, ambient temperatures, and elevation than a difference in 195°-205° engine temperatures. So, the moral of the story is..... set up the vehicle for what you're doing. If you're driving on the street, you do not need the lower temp thermostat. If your vehicle is going to be used for racing, a thermostat is the last thing on your list.

So, please set up your vehicle for application. That way you can best protect your motor and get the best performance possible. :)
 

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I've been scouring the forums for months and this topic finally made me create my account. So here is my 2 cents.

Most of you are wrong when you state that the thermostat is designed for emissions. It is not. At colder temperatures, your vehicle will produce more hydrocarbons. At higher temperatures, your vehicle will produce nox. At colder temperatures the computer will run a rich mixture to increase exhaust temperatures to activate the elements in the catalytic converter. Once the exhaust temperatures reaches proper cat temps the computer backs off to a more reasonable fuel mixture. That way the cat can break down nox more efficiently. So engine temperature variation between 195 to 205 has no effect on catalytic performance. Fuel consumption regulations has no effect on the production of the hellcat models "essentially" because dodge makes enough base model chargers and challenger to stay within epa regulations.

Now there is a lot of confusion between old timers, old muscle car builders, new age tuners, etc... Older vehicles were built with older technology, older process, and older materials. The manufacturer process of newer vehicles are so extremely different than the past. Oil and coolant and the detergent found in them are so far advanced now. So newer vehicles have safer and higher operation temperatures. "For example; to clean diesel injectors back in the day, techs use to run ATF fluid through the fuel system. Now you just buy injector cleaner."

Now, you will say a cooler motor will produce more power. That is a yes and a no. The biggest effect is engine bay temperatures. Obviously, a hot motor increases engine bay temperatures, which increases intake air temperatures. That's why a substantial upgrade is always a bigger intercooler, meth injection, nitrous spray, e85, etc... that way you can keep air temperatures down, to run more air and fuel in the combustion chamber and to reduce the risk of knock and pre-destination. Running a cooler motor also helps with this. That way you can run more advanced timing and a leaner air mixture. To do this, you generally need more than just a thermostat.

Now, for how well built the hellcat is and the computer technology that will pull timing. A cooler thermostat is unnecessary. Especially while driving the vehicle. The only reason to install a low temp thermostat is for dyno tuning or racing. Reason being, when you're dyno tuning, you're getting very little airflow due to being inside on a dyno. And for drag racing, you vehicle is spending less time traveling and more time idling. So you want a cooler engine bay when you pull up to the line. Track racing, you may spend more time drafting behind other vehicles. So you will experience higher temps while traveling and less air flow through the rad.

Now for the grand finale. For street driving, it is completely unnecessary. You will lose more power due to humidity, ambient temperatures, and elevation than a difference in 195°-205° engine temperatures. So, the moral of the story is..... set up the vehicle for what you're doing. If you're driving on the street, you do not need the lower temp thermostat. If your vehicle is going to be used for racing, a thermostat is the last thing on your list.

So, please set up your vehicle for application. That way you can best protect your motor and get the best performance possible. :)
Man, lots of mis-information here. Take a look at a Hellcat tune and see what you find.
 

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What would I find in a tune that would describe fundamentals of engine blueprinting? Or how a internal combustion engine produces emissions?
A Tune?...What does a thermostat have to do with engine "blueprinting"?
 

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Yet myself and a few family members with vehicles newer than 2012 all have ranging from 120k -190k miles on our vehicles that have the 180* Tstat and yet have ZERO issues with blow by, or engine failures. My 2006 Ram 1500 had a 180 tstat in it at 11,790 miles after I bought the truck. I sold it with 234k miles and still no issues. I fail to see your logic on ring wear?
 

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Yet myself and a few family members with vehicles newer than 2012 all have ranging from 120k -190k miles on our vehicles that have the 180* Tstat and yet have ZERO issues with blow by, or engine failures. My 2006 Ram 1500 had a 180 tstat in it at 11,790 miles after I bought the truck. I sold it with 234k miles and still no issues. I fail to see your logic on ring wear?
This is not new information... it's a known fact decades old with lots of valid data to back it up. You can even Google it. The stat temperature affects the Thermal Expansion Dimensions of the block. With a lower stat, the block doesn't expand to the correct dimensions thus causing more friction on the rings, thus more wear for a given amount of time. I would not buy any of your vehicles because of the excessive ring wear you have subjected your vehicles.
 

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This is not new information... it's a known fact decades old with lots of valid data to back it up. You can even Google it. The stat temperature affects the Thermal Expansion Dimensions of the block. With a lower stat, the block doesn't expand to the correct dimensions thus causing more friction on the rings, thus more wear for a given amount of time. I would not buy any of your vehicles because of the excessive ring wear you have subjected your vehicles.
That’s great! I will be sure to tell the owner of my last vehicle that his truck is on it’s last leg since it’s going on 300k miles and yet to have any blow by or oil burning problems.

Simply put a cooler thermostat will help with detonation especially a supercharged engine in very hot climates, ie Texas which is where I live. Since most people don’t like keeping a vehicle stock, a lower tstat will allow for a slight advance of timing to the vehicle or no timing added for extra protection from detonation.

A great idea is to do what you want to your vehicles and I will do the same with mine. Abnormally long oil changes will affect the engine more than a lower thermostat.
 
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