[Unavowed]

I can fly from Florida to Austin, TX in about 2-3 hours. But, it is so much more fun road tripping it in a hot rod. I can cook a steak in the microwave, but it's better on the grill. A $150k car that runs 9s is a terrible value. We've been building 8-9 second Fox Mustangs for 20 years that didn't cost $20,000 to build. Stock is all well and good, but as you say, the first to the stripe wins. For the cost of a new yuppie Plaid, I can build 5 shade tree specials that will beat it. And I don't even have Asperger's Syndrome.

Could that same shitbox comfortably transport a family of 5, plus their luggage, from Florida to Austin in the summer? Please don't compare a hobbled together track car to a new, high performance sedan. And no, with what cars and parts cost today, you could NOT build 5 9 second cars for the cost of a Plaid. And you may have Asperger's.

 

[Boris632]

Reality is ICE is dead.

GM dropping 1B on new V8
Hell, they just scrapped plans for their EV Express Van and will continue selling past the 2026 sunset date now with a revised ICE version.
C9 Corvette coming 2029
Ford bringing a new Mustang with a 500hp V8 and a stick for 2024.

EV's are proving they can't tow for shit and the fleet trucks that are used for towing will still need to rely on gas and diesel to get the job done.

I'd say ICE is a long way from being dead. 15-20 years at the earliest.

Cafe is a math problem. Ford and GM I believe have figured it out. Dodge ****** up.

 

[srt_blubyu]

GM dropping 1B on new V8
Hell, they just scrapped plans for their EV Express Van and will continue selling past the 2026 sunset date now with a revised ICE version.
C9 Corvette coming 2029
Ford bringing a new Mustang with a 500hp V8 and a stick for 2024.

EV's are proving they can't tow for shit and the fleet trucks that are used for towing will still need to rely on gas and diesel to get the job done.

I'd say ICE is a long way from being dead. 15-20 years at the earliest.

Cafe is a math problem. Ford and GM I believe have figured it out. Dodge ** up.

This exactly..

 

[Xylander]

Could that same shitbox comfortably transport a family of 5, plus their luggage, from Florida to Austin in the summer? Please don't compare a hobbled together track car to a new, high performance sedan. And no, with what cars and parts cost today, you could NOT build 5 9 second cars for the cost of a Plaid. And you may have Asperger's.

My 2015 Mustang GT had over 1200hp and a full interior. It could accommodate 2 adults and 2 kids just fine. I could build 3 of those for the cost of 1 Plaid, today, and it ran the 1/4 in 9.1.

But hey, I also don't build performance cars with luggage and kid hauling capacity in mind. And, if you don't think I can build a 9 second car for $30,000 you're smoking dope. I can build an 8 second car for probably under 15 grand. You can do some crazy stuff with a Mustang II body and chassis . My '55 gasser runs high 9s, and including the car's value and all the parts I've put in it over the years, I don't think I've reached 40 grand yet. It can seat 6 on the two benches, no trunk space though. Fuel cell and battery kinda in the way.

Neither my Mustang nor the gasser has to wait 7 to 12 minutes for the gimmick mode to activate.

 

[frictioncircle]

Lol and everyone holds hands in lieu of a seat-belt

 

[Unavowed]

My 2015 Mustang GT had over 1200hp and a full interior. It could accommodate 2 adults and 2 kids just fine. I could build 3 of those for the cost of 1 Plaid, today, and it ran the 1/4 in 9.1.

But hey, I also don't build performance cars with luggage and kid hauling capacity in mind. And, if you don't think I can build a 9 second car for $30,000 you're smoking dope. I can build an 8 second car for probably under 15 grand. You can do some crazy stuff with a Mustang II body and chassis . My '55 gasser runs high 9s, and including the car's value and all the parts I've put in it over the years, I don't think I've reached 40 grand yet. It can seat 6 on the two benches, no trunk space though. Fuel cell and battery kinda in the way.

Neither my Mustang nor the gasser has to wait 7 to 12 minutes for the gimmick mode to activate.

The average asking price for a 2015 Mustang GT looks to be about $30k currently. Unless you are buying a clapped out POS and spraying a 500 shot for 1 pass, your math doesn't work. A decent example, plus a built motor, plus a built drivetrain, plus a good power adder, plus a robust fuel system, plus wheels, tires and suspension, etc. is over $50k in hardware alone, not including labor. Good stuff isn't cheap and cheap stuff isn't good. I think you may be trying to play the 2023 game with the 2003 playbook.

 

[Xylander]

The average asking price for a 2015 Mustang GT looks to be about $30k currently. Unless you are buying a clapped out POS and spraying a 500 shot for 1 pass, your math doesn't work. A decent example, plus a built motor, plus a built drivetrain, plus a good power adder, plus a robust fuel system, plus wheels, tires and suspension, etc. is over $50k in hardware alone, not including labor. Good stuff isn't cheap and cheap stuff isn't good. I think you may be trying to play the 2023 game with the 2003 playbook.

Negative. Maybe if you're building stupid like a lot of monkey-see-monkey do Mustang people do, then you'd be correct. I only spent 18k on modifying my 2015 Performance Pack GT. New, car was 38k. 18k later, 1,200hp with a ProCharger D1X, Magnum XL transmission, and 1 piece aluminum driveshaft. Did drop in Mahle pistons. That was the only internal mod. The ProCharger came with everything needed except the fuel pumps. Myself and 2 guys did the entire job in about 12 hours time across 2 days. The entire ProCharger kit + D1X upgrade was only $8,000. Factoring in today's prices, 20-22k or so. We replicated this build 17 times for other customer cars, certified 49 state legal (and passed smog in California... but they don't allow aftermarket blowers on cars so pfffft).

Now, I am admittedly leaving off the wheel and tire upgrade cost. My comp wheels and tires were super expensive and I later went back and modified that car further. However, with 315 M/T drag radials with the stock running gear, the car pulled a best of 9.48 @ Gainesville in 2015. In 2017, we went back and tubbed it, had some custom titanium axles made and ran a big tire mod with a half cage that put it the 9.1s. I could have probably gotten that car into the 8s if I had deleted the interior and race lightened it. For the car's entire life, it ran at stock weight and it was my daily driver. I put over 58k miles on it. It only chewed through 3 sets of spark plugs... no mechanical failures.

Edit: Slight correction. The car was originally built with the MT-82 M6 trans, but with an Exeddy Mach stage IV clutch. We wanted to use a Mcleod but had some alignment problems with it, so ran with the Exeddy instead. We ran that for about 6 months and the MT-82 wasn't keeping up, so we swapped it for the Magnum XL. That 9.48 I mentioned was actually done with the MT-82.

 

[Xylander]

I think you may be trying to play the 2023 game with the 2003 playbook.

Most of what I build these days are older cars. One thing I have learned, not including actual mechanics/performance engineers, is that most people on the internet have no clue how to build an engine. They can tune an engine, adjust fuel, boost, and all the peripherals, but they don't know how to actually build an engine from an engineering perspective. In the aforementioned example in my previous post, we ran that on 93 pump gas. The pistons we added were modified gas ported pistons with a reduced compression ratio. That was our "secret sauce" that drove the idiots over at the Mustang6g forum mad.

Similarly, I had hordes of them calling us out because our motor should explode and there is no way you can boost a Mustang Coyote to 18psi on pump gas. At the time, I was a shop owner with a pretty nice Autonation build contract and I wasn't about to tell them how we were preventing predetonation. But those gas ported pistons were the trick. In addition, I also ran a catch can due to the desire to scavenge all the excess oil so as to aid in preventing the clogging of the gas ports.

But, if a person wants to retain the stock-like functionality, you'd be absolutely correct in that it is much more expensive to get big power on a modern engine unless you make some type of tweak affecting the compression stroke. I can't comment on the Gen III Hemi, as I've never even so much as taken the valve covers off of one. But with the Gen II Coyote, I had that engine's number.

 

[Unavowed]

Most of what I build these days are older cars. One thing I have learned, not including actual mechanics/performance engineers, is that most people on the internet have no clue how to build an engine. They can tune an engine, adjust fuel, boost, and all the peripherals, but they don't know how to actually build an engine from an engineering perspective. In the aforementioned example in my previous post, we ran that on 93 pump gas. The pistons we added were modified gas ported pistons with a reduced compression ratio. That was our "secret sauce" that drove the idiots over at the Mustang6g forum mad.

Similarly, I had hordes of them calling us out because our motor should explode and there is no way you can boost a Mustang Coyote to 18psi on pump gas. At the time, I was a shop owner with a pretty nice Autonation build contract and I wasn't about to tell them how we were preventing predetonation. But those gas ported pistons were the trick.

But, if a person wants to retain the stock-like functionality, you'd be absolutely correct in that it is much more expensive to get big power on a modern engine unless you make some type of tweak affecting the compression stroke. I can't comment on the Gen III Hemi, as I've never even so much as taken the valve covers off of one. But with the Gen II Coyote, I had that engine's number.

Right, but upgraded pistons (and rods, and hardware, and valvetrain parts) cost money. So does the labor to install it all. A good machine shop / engine builder doesn't work cheap. I'm a GM/LS guy and I know how much I have in my 417ci TT G8. I'm way past halfway to a Plaid. In the last 18 months I have over $10k in the drivetrain and over $6k in the fuel system. That doesn't include the built motor, twin turbo system, exhaust, wheels, tires, brakes, suspension, etc.

 

[Boris632]

I dig that G8.
Always wanted one.

 

[srt_blubyu]

since we've become. Tesla thread because those type of folks cant help themselves.. lets just say it for what it is.. a 1 trick pony. does great in the 1/4 mile and no so special everywhere else. This is especially true on the excitement and looks department. hell for that kind of money the Gen V Viper is the ticket .. and as limited as those may be.. you can find one if you try hard enough..


...no so sure about the 2023 Durango... I think im going to go through that list and compile what each dealer is charging for an order on a Durango Hellcat. Hell if the core/base edition is never going to be released looks like im looking for a plus then.. sigh.

 

[srt_blubyu]

I dig that G8.
Always wanted one.

agree.. such a shame on the short run. but damn does it look HUGE in that picture..

 

[Unavowed]

agree.. such a shame on the short run. but damn does it look HUGE in that picture..

 

[frictioncircle]

 

[Unavowed]

View attachment 611859

My wife's old car being traded on her current car.

 

[srt_blubyu]

View attachment 611858
View attachment 611856
View attachment 611857

ahh optical illusion.. that middle picture sorts it out. Like the wheels on your Durango btw

 

[Unavowed]

ahh optical illusion.. that middle picture sorts it out. Like the wheels on your Durango btw

Durango Hellcat on 21" VS Forged wheels.

Been working on this for a LONG time. Wheels are VS Forged VS02s in brushed double dark tint. 21x10 front with 275/45 tires and 21x11 rear with 315/40 tires. Fitment is spot on perfect. To my knowledge, no one else is running an 11" wide wheel with 315 tires on a Durango. I went with 21"...

www.hellcat.org

 

[S8ER01Z]

GM dropping 1B on new V8
Hell, they just scrapped plans for their EV Express Van and will continue selling past the 2026 sunset date now with a revised ICE version.
C9 Corvette coming 2029
Ford bringing a new Mustang with a 500hp V8 and a stick for 2024.

EV's are proving they can't tow for shit and the fleet trucks that are used for towing will still need to rely on gas and diesel to get the job done.

I'd say ICE is a long way from being dead. 15-20 years at the earliest.

Cafe is a math problem. Ford and GM I believe have figured it out. Dodge ** up.

I would love for that to be true but with the screws turning on the regulation front I fear we have a couple more years before they try to outright ban ICE sales completely (California is already working on it if I’m not mistaken). I’ll hopefully be long dead by the time ICE is banned but we will see how that works out.

 

[srt_blubyu]

ice won't be banned in your lifetime.. or mine. not until something cheap, plentiful and clean comes along that's better. But im bored with ICE v EVs threads.. there are a million you all can join to banter about that.

 

[Boris632]

I would love for that to be true but with the screws turning on the regulation front I fear we have a couple more years before they try to outright ban ICE sales completely (California is already working on it if I’m not mistaken). I’ll hopefully be long dead by the time ICE is banned but we will see how that works out.

California can do what they want, but when their economy goes to shit and people flee because they can't have stores stocked with food and supplies, THEY ARE ******.

I get the feel good story of clean energy, zero emission car and doing your part etc. But the reality is the world runs on oil and its products.

The real solution is to push for hybrids. I really get a kick out of what those can do. I think it was the 918 that had a MPG rating of 80 something but could run a 9 second 1/4 mile.
And since you could fill up with gas, you could drive it across the country and not have to find some bull shit charging station.

EVs have their place. But anyone who requires a truck to tow equipment for work is screwed. But both sides of the aisle refuse to play nice about this so the shit will hit the fan at some point and it won't be fun.