[GNBRETT]

Guys I need a little advice here. Just put a rod thru my 6.2 block on my Trackhawk. I have a Magnuson 2650. Im currently building a 426 Stroker with Diamond pistons, Boostline Rods from Wiseco and a Callies crank with Thitek heads and lightweight valves with a Custom Comp cam.

Right now the car made 815 whp on a Mustang dyno on 93 octane/meth which is about 900 whp on a dynojet and 900 whp on E85. I have a FORE 3x. So I have two questions maybe u guys can help out with.

1.) Im reaching the point where im about the hit the ceiling on power with 93 octane/meth. I wanted to upgrade to the Whipple 3.0 ported from Dustin. Or I was gonna send the Magnuson to Jokers to have it ported. Much cheaper. $1250 vs. $10k for the whipple ported.

The problem im having is I have spoken with two ppl who have ported their Maggi 2650 and have actually lost power. Granted, these were stock motors with stock heads. Is the benifit from the port only realized when u have a larger CI motor and better flowing heads?

Im at the point where I just cant make much more power on 93 octane so im wondering if the ported Whipple is just a waste of money on 93 octane. On E or C16 its a no brainer. There is no doubt the Whipple makes more power and is more efficient tho.

I know this for a fact cause we swapped the Maggi on my buddys Trackhawk for the Whipple 3.0 and he went over 2 tenths faster at 9.50 in the quarter vs 9.75 with the Maggi. The Maggi is not ported tho.

2.) To utilize the power the Maggi or the Whipple can make I really need to jump up to 1700's to run E. Currently I have 1300's. Are u guys able to tune and drive around on 93 octane with 1700 injectors cause I was told the 1700's dont do well on 93 octane as far as drivability.

Anyone here driving on 1700's with 93 octane? Would be nice to run the 1700's then I can run E85 otherwise I will be stuck with C16. Im moving to Kingsport TN and they have E85 at the dam gas pump there! But considering I get 9.5 MPG now I wont be using E very often. Again, this is my DD. I have other cars to drive but I love driving this and drive it every day!

Last edited: 19 minutes ago

 

[FreddyG]

If using one, have you asked your builder these questions? They'd probably know more about it than we would, especially if they've built big horse power before. Since you're deep into your build already, you could always get your snout ported for $1250 and see if it works before dropping $10k on the Whipple. If it works, then you saved yourself a bunch of money and if it doesn't, then you sell the ported blower and put that towards the Whipple. Have you thought about a Procharger or a turbo setup?

That's a lot of injector to daily drive around with. Your tuner has to know his stuff. You might try to send an e-mail to Jeremy Satera or Tim Barth and ask them. They've both tuned a bunch of big injector Mopars and might be able/willing to help.

I'm not trying to be a Smart Azz or anything, just offering some advice.

Here's a link to Satera's FB page with some TH builds to supply some food for thought:

Jeremy Satera's Facebook video of some Trackhawk builds that he's done.....................

Disclaimer: I have NO affiliation with either Satera or Barth, but know some peeps that have had work done by them and are satisfied/happy.

Good Luck!

 

[ScLeCo]

Your buddies weren't spinning the ported blowers fast enough.

Either blower will make plenty of power if you can spin them fast enough.
The problem with this is heat. You have to deal with the added heat and most do this with alcohol.

Short answer is no 1700 injectors and 93 oct are not going to get you a daily driver car with any more power than what you had. The problem being the limits of the 93oct.

Just go e85.

 

[GNBRETT]

I dont take anything as being a smart ass this is exactly what im looking for is different ideas. Me and my builder/tuner have been discussing it all week but I wanted other opinions which is why I posted here. There isnt any gain with porting anything unless u spin it higher which means I need E85 to run more boost.

I considered the single and TT setup from either Demon or Satera but im told there are quite a bit of drivability issues. I have other toys. Ones much faster than my TH so im trying not to ruin it lol. My two other toys are Turbo charged. I guess I just dont want to give up the instant snap u get with the blower. Plus its a TH and its supposed to have a blower. It tells me right on the digital dash when I start it up lol jk.

From a dig I want that instant power! Sure, I can Turbo it and sit on a transbrake and build boost and launch probably much harder but this is my DD and its just so fun from a dig. Im probably being over dramatic cause TT's spool up pretty dam fast these day. Shit, even single 88's spool up wicked quick! But nothing comes on like a Roots blower. i guess the fun factor from a dig is what I dont want to give up. Would be nice to just to up and lower the boost with a BC for sure.

I went up against a pretty fast Hellcat Challenger last week from a dig. He had big tires 275/60 and hooked faily well. He has a ported Redeye blower with headers and quite a bit of work done and he wanted to race on the street from a dig. His shit is fast. Made over 900 whp.

I wanted to film it but he said I cant post it if he loses lol. I told me hes gonna lose lol. He lost, really bad lol. He's my buddy tho. My TH is a 9 second truck so it is pretty quick but from a dig its deadly. Pretty fast from a roll as well but he would get me if we rolled raced I think. Thing is badass tho.

Good idea on sending email to Barth or Jeremy at Satera. Gonna do that on Monday. I did look at Satera for a Turbo build and I will have the motor and supporting parts to do it in the future but like I said I just dont want to ruin my TH and make it a race car that only gets driven on E85 or C16 occasionaly.

I can run it all the time on E85 where im moving to in Tennessee but gas mileage would be comical as a DD. Probably get 5-6 mpg literally!

Brett at Jokerz pretty much talked me out of getting it ported and said I should go with the Whipple. Right now on 93 pump I make 815 whp on a Mustang dyno. With a 426ci and Thitek heads I should pick up around a 100 whp. I think im at the limits for pump gas so im having second thoughts about the Whipple if I cant run 1700's. I could do the C16 tune but that would be a novelty. I not cruising around with gas that cost $20 a gallon lol.

On E85 and a dynojet I'll probably make dam near 1200 whp. I considered porting the Whipple 3.0 but again it will only help if spinning it much higher. What do u think?

If using one, have you asked your builder these questions? They'd probably know more about it than we would, especially if they've built big horse power before. Since you're deep into your build already, you could always get your snout ported for $1250 and see if it works before dropping $10k on the Whipple. If it works, then you saved yourself a bunch of money and if it doesn't, then you sell the ported blower and put that towards the Whipple. Have you thought about a Procharger or a turbo setup?

That's a lot of injector to daily drive around with. Your tuner has to know his stuff. You might try to send an e-mail to Jeremy Satera or Tim Barth and ask them. They've both tuned a bunch of big injector Mopars and might be able/willing to help.

I'm not trying to be a Smart Azz or anything, just offering some advice.

Here's a link to Satera's FB page with some TH builds to supply some food for thought:

Jeremy Satera's Facebook video of some Trackhawk builds that he's done.....................

Disclaimer: I have NO affiliation with either Satera or Barth, but know some peeps that have had work done by them and are satisfied/happy.

Good Luck!

 

[GNBRETT]

No they definately were not spinning it high enough. What about the upgraded intercoolers that go into the Magnuson. Are they worth getting?

I have a Turbo Mustang that makes 1400 whp on E85 and a 1000 whp on 93/alky and I run 1700's all the time. In fact, I dont run E85 on the street ever just track so tuning 1700's with 93 octane is doable since ive had mine for two years now with zero issues.

If the 1700's can be tuned for 93 octane with my Mustang why wouldnt I be able to use them on my Trackhawk? I really dont know and am asking a question?

Again, this is my DD so running E85 all the time is not something im interested in doing. I have two other 8 second toys. A Turbo Mustang and an wicked RS3 that will smoke my Mustang lol.

So what do u think about going with the Whipple considering im pretty much tapped out on 93 octane if I made 815 whp with the Maggi and will pick up another 100 I think im hitting the ceiling on 93 octane. Ur thoughts?

Your buddies weren't spinning the ported blowers fast enough.

Either blower will make plenty of power if you can spin them fast enough.
The problem with this is heat. You have to deal with the added heat and most do this with alcohol.

Short answer is no 1700 injectors and 93 oct are not going to get you a daily driver car with any more power than what you had. The problem being the limits of the 93oct.

Just go e85.

 

[SickToo]

In the past I had more success with turbo’s and nitrous on gasoline then I did with blower motors. Not only big power but drivability. Blower technology has changed so much since then tho. I have no real life experience with the new blowers but it’s certain you can make big numbers and run a smaller electronic injector if a bunch of yer hp is getting its fuel thru nitrous nozzles. Not to mention the benifits of a separate tank for that system. Are you dead set on running a supercharger?

 

[Lil Hemi]

Are you running an interchiller? If not, I’d definitely add that. I’ve got a similar build to yours, built 426, fore 3x, id 1300, ported heads, etc but I’m running the factory blower still. I’m thinking of going whipple if I wanna toss more money at they jeep

 

[GNBRETT]

Not dead set on running s blower but it is my DD so trying not to ruin it.

Im not running an inter chiller but I will say with the Cortex box, Magnuson and now a Demon hood my temps went down about 35-40 degrees. We talked about the chiller but there seems to be some fitting and leaking issues so I opted not to use it. Im sure it works great for most ppl tho.

I would think with a 426 the stock blower would be out of breath. Yea the Whipple is another $7500 but im on the fence with the Whipple. Really wish the Maggi 3100 would come out but I guess thats a pipe dream.

 

[Lil Hemi]

I am definitely blower limited at this point. Running a 9% lower and a 2.75 upper. I would really consider the fiinterchiller, blanket and spacers. I’m in central Texas and I noticed a lot of power loss during the summer when I was near stock but I have zero issues with power loss from heat now. My ait is usually ambient or near it and I only have the level 1 kit.

 

[FreddyG]

I dont take anything as being a smart ass this is exactly what im looking for is different ideas. Me and my builder/tuner have been discussing it all week but I wanted other opinions which is why I posted here. There isnt any gain with porting anything unless u spin it higher which means I need E85 to run more boost.

I considered the single and TT setup from either Demon or Satera but im told there are quite a bit of drivability issues. I have other toys. Ones much faster than my TH so im trying not to ruin it lol. My two other toys are Turbo charged. I guess I just dont want to give up the instant snap u get with the blower. Plus its a TH and its supposed to have a blower. It tells me right on the digital dash when I start it up lol jk.

From a dig I want that instant power! Sure, I can Turbo it and sit on a transbrake and build boost and launch probably much harder but this is my DD and its just so fun from a dig. Im probably being over dramatic cause TT's spool up pretty dam fast these day. Shit, even single 88's spool up wicked quick! But nothing comes on like a Roots blower. i guess the fun factor from a dig is what I dont want to give up. Would be nice to just to up and lower the boost with a BC for sure.

I went up against a pretty fast Hellcat Challenger last week from a dig. He had big tires 275/60 and hooked faily well. He has a ported Redeye blower with headers and quite a bit of work done and he wanted to race on the street from a dig. His shit is fast. Made over 900 whp.

I wanted to film it but he said I cant post it if he loses lol. I told me hes gonna lose lol. He lost, really bad lol. He's my buddy tho. My TH is a 9 second truck so it is pretty quick but from a dig its deadly. Pretty fast from a roll as well but he would get me if we rolled raced I think. Thing is badass tho.

Good idea on sending email to Barth or Jeremy at Satera. Gonna do that on Monday. I did look at Satera for a Turbo build and I will have the motor and supporting parts to do it in the future but like I said I just dont want to ruin my TH and make it a race car that only gets driven on E85 or C16 occasionaly.

I can run it all the time on E85 where im moving to in Tennessee but gas mileage would be comical as a DD. Probably get 5-6 mpg literally!

Brett at Jokerz pretty much talked me out of getting it ported and said I should go with the Whipple. Right now on 93 pump I make 815 whp on a Mustang dyno. With a 426ci and Thitek heads I should pick up around a 100 whp. I think im at the limits for pump gas so im having second thoughts about the Whipple if I cant run 1700's. I could do the C16 tune but that would be a novelty. I not cruising around with gas that cost $20 a gallon lol.

On E85 and a dynojet I'll probably make dam near 1200 whp. I considered porting the Whipple 3.0 but again it will only help if spinning it much higher. What do u think?

You could install a flex fuel system that would let you run both types of fuels. It would give you the best of both worlds. E85 when you feel like being a little rowdy and 93 for daily duties. If using the 93, you could also run a meth system on it too. This would help considerably because of the extra fueling/octane that it provides when using pump gas..

As far as the blower goes, the 3.0 Whipple sounds like what you need for what your goals are. I was just trying to be practical and save you some money (if the ported blower solved your problem, then you wouldn't need to spring for the Whipple). Porting the Whipple would only be needed if you're spinning the heck out of it.

How much boost do you plan to run through it?

 

[Unavowed]

The new Whipple with a flex fuel tune is what you need. A competent tuner should be able to get the 1,700's to drive fine on both 93 and E85. With a built, big cube engine and an upgraded blower, (plus the weight, aero and AWD of a Trackhawk) MPG is going to be comical, it will just be 30% more comical on E85.

 

[GNBRETT]

I thought about that but I was told the E85 tune would be a max hp tune but the 93 octane would not be very aggressive. I was told one or the other for big power and that u cant have both. Its not a stand alone so I guess tuners dont feel comfortable.

I was told the 93 octane could be used but the tune would not be the same if it was a dedicated 93 tune with methanol. Remember, im gonna be using M1 (Methanol) not Boost Juice (Meth/Water) cause I will need the extra octane to make the power I want on 93 and it has to be tuned for that. The Meth isnt healthy for the blower blades tho but whatever its only spraying when I smash it lol.

Im going with 1700 injectors cause Tim Barth told me they can surely be used with 93 octane. If my shop isnt comfortable with that I will be using another shop.

As far as how much boost not sure. All it can handle lol. I have till Tuesday to decide on what im gonna do cause I gotta get stuff ordered. The Whipple is easy and proven but I hit a wall with it for sure. The Turbo gives me room to grow plus is much less abuse on ur motor internals. Blowers hit HARD!

Going back and fourth switching pulleys is not something im looking forward to doing.

I thought about just saying scew the 93 octane and run E all the time and drive it a couple days a week. Then it can be on kill all the time and have a safe tune and make much more power cause I could use 2000's or 2200's. But I just love driving this dam thing so much I wanna drive it every freaking day lol but with all these mods my gas mileage should be Awesome! lol

Again, where im moving they have E85 so IDN.

You could install a flex fuel system that would let you run both types of fuels. It would give you the best of both worlds. E85 when you feel like being a little rowdy and 93 for daily duties. If using the 93, you could also run a meth system on it too. This would help considerably because of the extra fueling/octane that it provides when using pump gas..

As far as the blower goes, the 3.0 Whipple sounds like what you need for what your goals are. I was just trying to be practical and save you some money (if the ported blower solved your problem, then you wouldn't need to spring for the Whipple). Porting the Whipple would only be needed if you're spinning the heck out of it.

How much boost do you plan to run through it?

 

[Unavowed]

A built 426 with good heads and a healthy cam, topped with the new Whipple, will obliterate almost anything on the street, even on 93. The flex sensor will read the alcohol content and adjust timing accordingly.
I run 50% E85 plus M1 meth on my TT 417ci G8 without issues. And that's on 1300's. Granted, it seems GM cars are much easier to tune in general, and especially with flex fuel.
Assuming you find a tuner with plenty of flex fuel experience, I think you can have the best of both worlds. 93 on the street and E85 at the track, when every 100th counts. Just don't get too greedy with pulley ratios. Let the bump in timing give you the extra power on E85.
Beautiful Malinois BTW. 🐕

 

[GNBRETT]

Do u run E85 down there or 93 octane? On the fence about going Turbo. But if I dont I will consider the chiller thanx. Coming from a dude who lives in Texas lol ill take it into consideration cause im sure its hotter than Tennessee.

I am definitely blower limited at this point. Running a 9% lower and a 2.75 upper. I would really consider the fiinterchiller, blanket and spacers. I’m in central Texas and I noticed a lot of power loss during the summer when I was near stock but I have zero issues with power loss from heat now. My ait is usually ambient or near it and I only have the level 1 kit.

 

[GNBRETT]

Thanx on the Mali. Thats my heart and soul..... Im just not getting a good feeling from the shop im dealing with about flex fuel. Shit, would be awesome to have the best of both worlds I agree.

I think cause im living in CT right now im forgetting that I will have E85 access where im moving so maybe I should just opt for the ID2000 or 2200's and go Turbo and make 1500 whp. Of course that would require a trans/converter and transfer case upgrade but I really like the snap of the blower. Its a hard decision to make and im strugging with it.

Ill be honest I have been driving my TH WAY too much since I bought it and with gas prices so crazy I really need to chill and I think if it was tuned for E85 only I would look forward more to driving it. I do have other cars to drive but I really love driving this thing. I get so much dam attention I feel special lmao JK but I just have so much fun in it its hard not to drive.

A built 426 with good heads and a healthy cam, topped with the new Whipple, will obliterate almost anything on the street, even on 93. The flex sensor will read the alcohol content and adjust timing accordingly.
I run 50% E85 plus M1 meth on my TT 417ci G8 without issues. And that's on 1300's. Granted, it seems GM cars are much easier to tune in general, and especially with flex fuel.
Assuming you find a tuner with plenty of flex fuel experience, I think you can have the best of both worlds. 93 on the street and E85 at the track, when every 100th counts. Just don't get too greedy with pulley ratios. Let the bump in timing give you the extra power on E85.
Beautiful Malinois BTW. 🐕

 

[Lil Hemi]

Do u run E85 down there or 93 octane? On the fence about going Turbo. But if I dont I will consider the chiller thanx. Coming from a dude who lives in Texas lol ill take it into consideration cause im sure its hotter than Tennessee.

I run either. There’s no pulley swap needed (I’m not going for max power though) I just run the fuel empty or very, very low and swap the tune. I take it easy for the first tank of fuel and monitor the ethanol content with a sensor. I run E85 most of the time because there is a pump at the station closest to me but I am there more often when running E85. I put 93 in it once or twice a year for a few weeks to help clean things up as ethanol will gum things up over time. I’m at 820whp on Ethanol using a mustang dyno currently. The real thing is I don’t lose power due to heat, check out fiinterchiller and go to jeepTrackhawk.org, lots of good info there. It’s basically the same forum as this but dedicated to the TH. Lots of helpful people.

 

[FreddyG]

I thought about that but I was told the E85 tune would be a max hp tune but the 93 octane would not be very aggressive. I was told one or the other for big power and that u cant have both. Its not a stand alone so I guess tuners dont feel comfortable.

I was told the 93 octane could be used but the tune would not be the same if it was a dedicated 93 tune with methanol. Remember, im gonna be using M1 (Methanol) not Boost Juice (Meth/Water) cause I will need the extra octane to make the power I want on 93 and it has to be tuned for that. The Meth isnt healthy for the blower blades tho but whatever its only spraying when I smash it lol.

Im going with 1700 injectors cause Tim Barth told me they can surely be used with 93 octane. If my shop isnt comfortable with that I will be using another shop.

As far as how much boost not sure. All it can handle lol. I have till Tuesday to decide on what im gonna do cause I gotta get stuff ordered. The Whipple is easy and proven but I hit a wall with it for sure. The Turbo gives me room to grow plus is much less abuse on ur motor internals. Blowers hit HARD!

Going back and fourth switching pulleys is not something im looking forward to doing.

I thought about just saying scew the 93 octane and run E all the time and drive it a couple days a week. Then it can be on kill all the time and have a safe tune and make much more power cause I could use 2000's or 2200's. But I just love driving this dam thing so much I wanna drive it every freaking day lol but with all these mods my gas mileage should be Awesome! lol

Again, where im moving they have E85 so IDN.

That's why I recommend a turbo setup because you don't have to worry about pulley this and pulley that! You hit the button on the boost controller and you're in business! You get it tuned on 93 and then when you want to play harder, you hit the E85 button. I Love turbo's because of this (and more but I'll keep my turbo fetish in control )

As far as gas mileage, you can forget about mpg if shooting for power levels that you want! It's more about SPG (SMILES PER GALLON )!

I'm not trying to force Jeremy Satera down your throat but he does know what he's doing and puts the work in to support Mopar's while everything seems to be GM/LS this and GM/LS that, but he makes a Stellar Flex Fuel setup (not cheap by any means). It adjusts the tune according to the ACTUAL alcohol content of the E85 fuel.

Here's his FB page that shows it in action. It's the third post down: Satera FB page showing his Flex Fuel setup and what it does...................

Thanx on the Mali. Thats my heart and soul..... Im just not getting a good feeling from the shop im dealing with about flex fuel. Shit, would be awesome to have the best of both worlds I agree.

I think cause im living in CT right now im forgetting that I will have E85 access where im moving so maybe I should just opt for the ID2000 or 2200's and go Turbo and make 1500 whp. Of course that would require a trans/converter and transfer case upgrade but I really like the snap of the blower. Its a hard decision to make and im strugging with it.

Ill be honest I have been driving my TH WAY too much since I bought it and with gas prices so crazy I really need to chill and I think if it was tuned for E85 only I would look forward more to driving it. I do have other cars to drive but I really love driving this thing. I get so much dam attention I feel special lmao JK but I just have so much fun in it its hard not to drive.

You bought it to drive it and speaking from someone who didn't truly enjoy the vehicles that I was Blessed with, I'm Happy to hear how excited you get when you are out enjoying your Whips! Good for you (I mean that in a good way, not a sarcastic one)!

 

[GNBRETT]

Honestly Satera was my first choice and I can still send it there and I do like that Flex fuel setup. They seem to be leading the way Turbo wise. Be sweet just to add E to make more power without draining everything. I have a fitting off the fuel rail that I attach a small hose to with an AN fitting and I have a small switch in the motor compartment adjacent to the FPR and it activates the second and third fuel pumps to drain the fuel. Just power on is all I need.

The blower is just so simple and proven and I can make a 1000 whp on 93 octane on a dynojet at least but can I make more with the Turbo on 93? I dont know maybe.

Its a tough call cause if I go Turbo it will be pretty much a weekend toy only cause I'll push it harder and require a much bigger injector than 93 will handle.

If I stay Whipple Im confident I can get the 1700's to work with 93 therefore I can have both. Anything past what the ID1700's can handle is E85 only which im not totally against and making it a weekend toy will probably make me enjoy it much more.

U only change pulleys if ur looking for max effort one can still pick up quite a bit from timing alone. Its just the Turbo makes it simple. Especially if ur running an AMS 2000. I had one on my Turbo Busa and it was great. I had 5 different maps with different boost settings. I just had to change gas and turn knob lol. Same here with Turbo but u just go to ur phone and change the tune then turn the knob.

This is really stressing me out but the Potential for power with the Turbo and ur ability to ramp in the power definately has its advantages. That AMS 2000 is trick af.

That's why I recommend a turbo setup because you don't have to worry about pulley this and pulley that! You hit the button on the boost controller and you're in business! You get it tuned on 93 and then when you want to play harder, you hit the E85 button. I Love turbo's because of this (and more but I'll keep my turbo fetish in control )

As far as gas mileage, you can forget about mpg if shooting for power levels that you want! It's more about SPG (SMILES PER GALLON )!

I'm not trying to force Jeremy Satera down your throat but he does know what he's doing and puts the work in to support Mopar's while everything seems to be GM/LS this and GM/LS that, but he makes a Stellar Flex Fuel setup (not cheap by any means). It adjusts the tune according to the ACTUAL alcohol content of the E85 fuel.

Here's his FB page that shows it in action. It's the third post down: Satera FB page showing his Flex Fuel setup and what it does...................



You bought it to drive it and speaking from someone who didn't truly enjoy the vehicles that I was Blessed with, I'm Happy to hear how excited you get when you are out enjoying your Whips! Good for you (I mean that in a good way, not a sarcastic one)!

 

[GNBRETT]

Thats exactly what I made essentially. Well, 815 whp but that was on 93 and methanol which is all ive been using. On E it made 900 whp but I never even put it in. I got it back a week after being down for a while and now its going back for more work.

Its kinda like a drug. A sickness smh. Them G forces are like Heroin......

I run either. There’s no pulley swap needed (I’m not going for max power though) I just run the fuel empty or very, very low and swap the tune. I take it easy for the first tank of fuel and monitor the ethanol content with a sensor. I run E85 most of the time because there is a pump at the station closest to me but I am there more often when running E85. I put 93 in it once or twice a year for a few weeks to help clean things up as ethanol will gum things up over time. I’m at 820whp on Ethanol using a mustang dyno currently. The real thing is I don’t lose power due to heat, check out fiinterchiller and go to jeepTrackhawk.org, lots of good info there. It’s basically the same forum as this but dedicated to the TH. Lots of helpful people.

 

[SickToo]

You just got it back? I thought you said you just broke a rod?

*What are your goals? If you are just chasing G force put a stock motor in it and buy a drag bike. The slowest one I own does a 1.12 60’

Thats 0-80 in 1.1 seconds and it’s prolly not worth over $20k turn key!