[Chris jimenez]

Hey guys I ordered a 21 redeye hellcat challenger widebody. I’m going to get the oil changed at 500 miles for the break-in can you guys explain what that does from my understanding it just gets rid of the shavings. And is it true you have to keep it under 3000 RPMs for the first 500 miles would it be a big deal if you didn’t?

 

[Slowpoke387]

Hey guys I ordered a 21 redeye hellcat challenger widebody. I’m going to get the oil changed at 500 miles for the break-in can you guys explain what that does from my understanding it just gets rid of the shavings. And is it true you have to keep it under 3000 RPMs for the first 500 miles would it be a big deal if you didn’t?

You can go more miles than 500. Change it for peace of mind if nothing else. Your engine has been broken in at the factory for 42 minutes on a dyno already.
The key to breaking everything else in is just not stomp on it and shock the drivetrain. Ive never stuck to the rpm limitations exactly, three of these now with zero issues. Just try and vary your rpm‘s and not drone along at the same rpm’s for too long.

 

[Chris jimenez]

You can go more miles than 500. Change it for peace of mind if nothing else. Your engine has been broken in at the factory for 42 minutes on a dyno already.
The key to breaking everything else in is just not stomp on it and shock the drivetrain. Ive never stuck to the rpm limitations exactly, three of these now with zero issues. Just try and vary your rpm‘s and not drone along at the same rpm’s for too long.

OK thank you that was good information.

 

[102542]

It's a waste of time, energy and money to change the oil that soon--period.. I have owned several SRT products, raced cars all my life, built engines, been involved with Nascar and owned just about every significant muscle car ever built and early oil changes don't do anything to prevent engine wear in todays modern engines--I've never had a single mechanical issue due to oil life and never changed the oil any sooner than 10,000 miles (modern cars)--even the first one. Shavings in the oil?? If the engine has any shavings in it, it won't matter how often you change the oil--you then have catastrophic issues going on and changing oil won't change or save a thing..
Here's the thing--either a engine is "right" from the get go--or it's bad from the get go--changing oil early doesn't change the original engine build. Oil only gets dirty from combustion chamber blow by into the crank case and it's fuel residue which makes the oil darker--not engine shavings.. With sequential port fuel injection, the fuel efficiencies are so good that the blow by into the crank is almost zero--back in the day, oil would get highly contaminated by excessive fuel in the cylinders from carbueration and poorer ring control design--flooding was also common in carbed cars and the oil viscosity would be so severly reduced, that it caused main and rods bearings to get washed/knocked out--but not anymore.. 3x2 carb set ups and dual quad cars were notorious for flooding and knocking out bearings.. All of todays injected cars, even HellCats, are run so lean that most of the lope you feel at idle and even low throttle conditions is actually lean run misfire within the cylinders and especially noticeable on decel causing the backfiring (popping) you hear in HellCats or really any car with louder exhaust systems--highly muffled exhaust systems just cover up the decel popping in all cars.. On wide open throttle application, the injectors begin dumping fuel into the cylinders BUT sequential fuel injection still makes the cylinders burn clean. This is for ALL manufacturers, not just Dodge.
Unless you are in a lot of ongoing race conditions or run the living sh_ t out of your car, bordering abuse, there's no advantage to early oil change intervals in todays modern injected cars. With synthetic oils and lean run cylinders (all manufacturers) most engine designs and fuel management systems will easily go 15,000 mile intervals and some 20,000--supercharged and turbo charged engines with the pressured induction, will push the intervals down to 10,000 miles. I don't drive my HellCats like a baby carriage--yet I don't abuse them either--I drive my cars very spirited daily and I do 10,000 miles..
Good luck and spend your money as you please but these are the facts. Hope it helps.

 

[PolePosition]

Mmmmm.... "SRT shavings..."

 

[Rockster]

Hey guys I ordered a 21 redeye hellcat challenger widebody. I’m going to get the oil changed at 500 miles for the break-in can you guys explain what that does from my understanding it just gets rid of the shavings. And is it true you have to keep it under 3000 RPMs for the first 500 miles would it be a big deal if you didn’t?

New engines shed metal trash, debris.

There is a filter which captures any metal debris the new engine sheds, and it does shed metal debris, lots of it. Some is just "trash" that inevitability gets left in the engine -- machining swarf -- but every surface will add its quota of metal debris -- mostly in the form of fine metal particles.

So the oil filter captures the metal particles, but this doesn't mean it always "retains" the metal debris in its filter element. As a result the filter housing oil is loaded with metal particles.

The concern is if at cold start or at any other time oil pressure spikes too high this can have the filter oil bypass valve open and route unfiltered oil to the engine. If one could see what has been "trapped" in the filter housing he wouldn't sleep nights.

Here is a pic of the oil the filter of my 2008 Porsche Cayman S contained. I drained this into a clean oil drain pan:

The light coloring is from all the (mostly) aluminum the engine shed in 750 miles.

The other problem is the new engine generates a lot of blowby and this contaminates the oil. The oil is compromised in its ability to properly lubricate the engine.

Before I owned the Cayman, with a car for which the factory called for first oil change at 15K miles, on a whim I had the oil analyzed with 4K miles on the new engine. The oil contained 7% water. With over 9 quarts of oil capacity the oil had around 1/2 quart of water in it. Water in oil lowers the oil's viscosity and well, that's not what one wants. The water in the oil arose because the engine just didn't get that hot -- the 4K miles was put on the car from Jan 2002 to sometime in March 2002 -- and the oil didn't get hot enough to boil the water into vapor and for the vapor to then be removed via the PCV system.

There are reports these engines are run on a dyno for 42 minutes. I have seen nothing official from the factory on this. I came upon this in a magazine article.

Frankly I have my doubts all Hellcat (and I was told the Scat Pack engine receives the same dyno time) gets 42 minutes of dyno time. I watched several Dodge engine factory engine build videos and in one it does show a guy rolling a new engine -- not a Hellcat engine -- from the assembly line to a large dyno room. The engine is hooked up to the dyno and he sits at a console.

To spend 42 minutes on a dyno would require, being conservative, a couple of minutes of time to connect the engine to the dyno and then disconnect it after. Thus call it 45 minutes. The Dodge engine factory can build hundreds of engines per hour. To then spend 45 minutes to run each engine on a dyno -- to get one engine a minute out of the dyno "ward" would require at least 45 dyno stations and 45 dyno room employees -- which just adds considerably to the cost to build the engine.

While I believe early Hellcat/Scat Pack engines were all dyno'd -- prior to putting the engines into cars which were almost certainly destined for use by factory big wigs, automobile mag car reviewers -- I would need to see something official from Dodge that all (Hellcat/Scat Pack) engines are dyno'd even to this day. So far I have not found this.

Regardless does 42 minutes on a dyno fully break in the engine? No way. 42 minutes of engine run time represents say 42 minutes at 30mph -- the "average" speed of a passenger car over time -- which works out to around 22 miles. That is hardly enough "miles" to break in an engine.

As the pic shows above after 750 miles the amount of "trash" the engine shed. What I don't have is a pic I took of the filter housing oil when I changed the oil a 2nd time at around 1500 miles. It had some "color" to it but it was so slight it did not show up in a picture.

Yes, a number of new car owners do not bother with an early oil change and the vast majority do not experience any engine issues. But I like to improve my odds. The Hellcat engine is a high performance engine. To help ensure its long and trouble free service I have no problem with an early oil change or two.

To that end for my new 2018 Hellcat I had the oil changed at 500 miles, 2K miles then at 5K miles. Then I settled into a 5K miles/6 month oil change schedule.

But i this regard the Hellcat was not that "special". Since my first new car way back when I have always changed or had changed the oil early.

It is your car. You can of course do what you want. But my advice is unless forbidden by the factory (owners manual) have the oil changed -- either do it yourself or have it done at the dealer -- early. Maybe you don't want to follow my "example" of 500, 2K, 5K mile oil changes.

But I'd rather do an early oil change than one day start the engine and hear the "tick".

 

[Ronconn]

Good advice.

 

[David Neibert]

I changed mine at 1000 miles for first change then every 3000 miles afterward. It's not a daily driver so it's only getting changed about once a year.

David

 

[Mattm400]

This debate goes on in any and every forum I've ever been in. Lots of good points. These days, oil is much thinner, tolerances are much closer, and computer engine management works wonders. I'm all for synthetic oil and a longer time & mileage between changes. But...... I'm all for changing the oil & filter first around 1000 to 1500 miles, and here's my reason. I've worked at a major auto manufacturer for many many years, in a powertrain quality department, I've seen all the machining, assembly, dyno's etc. All these engine parts (think blocks, heads, crank, cams, rods) are machined in house, they all go through washers after machining. I've actually run tests on how clean each part is after each comes off the line. There's more dirt in these parts that you'll care to think about, although it's mostly measured in milligrams, it all adds up. Occasionally I've seen actual metal shavings caught in cavities & crevasses mostly in heads and blocks.
In a factory setting, where a new engine is assembled every minute, it's exposed to alot of different contaminants. (I've built cleaner engines in my own garage).
This being said, I'm sure the regular interval in owners manual is fine, and the filter should catch most things that may be present, but this is the reason I like to change it the first time early.
To each their own, and we've all had our own experiences, just sharing mine.
Matt

 

[Frosty]

This debate goes on in any and every forum I've ever been in. Lots of good points. These days, oil is much thinner, tolerances are much closer, and computer engine management works wonders. I'm all for synthetic oil and a longer time & mileage between changes. But...... I'm all for changing the oil & filter first around 1000 to 1500 miles, and here's my reason. I've worked at a major auto manufacturer for many many years, in a powertrain quality department, I've seen all the machining, assembly, dyno's etc. All these engine parts (think blocks, heads, crank, cams, rods) are machined in house, they all go through washers after machining. I've actually run tests on how clean each part is after each comes off the line. There's more dirt in these parts that you'll care to think about, although it's mostly measured in milligrams, it all adds up. Occasionally I've seen actual metal shavings caught in cavities & crevasses mostly in heads and blocks.
In a factory setting, where a new engine is assembled every minute, it's exposed to alot of different contaminants. (I've built cleaner engines in my own garage).
This being said, I'm sure the regular interval in owners manual is fine, and the filter should catch most things that may be present, but this is the reason I like to change it the first time early.
To each their own, and we've all had our own experiences, just sharing mine.
Matt

True story. Just ask any 2013 and 2014 Viper original owner about debris in new engines 😢

While this subject can be debated back and forth for ages what is not debatable is that if you go more than 6K miles (or 6 months) in your HC and something happens to your engine you are going to be SOL with Dodge. Owners manual says it in black and white that oil must be changed every 6 months or 6K miles. Some will argue that is just to make the dealerships more money but at the end of the day if you don't follow at min those guidelines don't go complaining that your Engine claim was denied by Dodge if something happens and they refused to fix it.

I guess the part I've never been able to understand in these debates is how we can spend $50K-$100K on a 700+ HP car and then not want to keep the life blood of the main piece of that said car in as good health as possible just to save $100 a year.

 

[Slowpoke387]

This debate goes on in any and every forum I've ever been in. Lots of good points. These days, oil is much thinner, tolerances are much closer, and computer engine management works wonders. I'm all for synthetic oil and a longer time & mileage between changes. But...... I'm all for changing the oil & filter first around 1000 to 1500 miles, and here's my reason. I've worked at a major auto manufacturer for many many years, in a powertrain quality department, I've seen all the machining, assembly, dyno's etc. All these engine parts (think blocks, heads, crank, cams, rods) are machined in house, they all go through washers after machining. I've actually run tests on how clean each part is after each comes off the line. There's more dirt in these parts that you'll care to think about, although it's mostly measured in milligrams, it all adds up. Occasionally I've seen actual metal shavings caught in cavities & crevasses mostly in heads and blocks.
In a factory setting, where a new engine is assembled every minute, it's exposed to alot of different contaminants. (I've built cleaner engines in my own garage).
This being said, I'm sure the regular interval in owners manual is fine, and the filter should catch most things that may be present, but this is the reason I like to change it the first time early.
To each their own, and we've all had our own experiences, just sharing mine.
Matt

I agree with this. Did mine at 1200 miles. 500 seems a bit premature but I get it. Cheap insurance.

 

[Mattm400]

My Redeye is sitting right now at 666 miles, I already have one & filter on hand for the 1000 mile mark.

 

[Chris jimenez]

My Redeye is sitting right now at 666 miles, I already have one & filter on hand for the 1000 mile mark.

Can you at least drive it one more mile so we can get a seven in there?

 

[Chris jimenez]

It's a waste of time, energy and money to change the oil that soon--period.. I have owned several SRT products, raced cars all my life, built engines, been involved with Nascar and owned just about every significant muscle car ever built and early oil changes don't do anything to prevent engine wear in todays modern engines--I've never had a single mechanical issue due to oil life and never changed the oil any sooner than 10,000 miles (modern cars)--even the first one. Shavings in the oil?? If the engine has any shavings in it, it won't matter how often you change the oil--you then have catastrophic issues going on and changing oil won't change or save a thing..
Here's the thing--either a engine is "right" from the get go--or it's bad from the get go--changing oil early doesn't change the original engine build. Oil only gets dirty from combustion chamber blow by into the crank case and it's fuel residue which makes the oil darker--not engine shavings.. With sequential port fuel injection, the fuel efficiencies are so good that the blow by into the crank is almost zero--back in the day, oil would get highly contaminated by excessive fuel in the cylinders from carbueration and poorer ring control design--flooding was also common in carbed cars and the oil viscosity would be so severly reduced, that it caused main and rods bearings to get washed/knocked out--but not anymore.. 3x2 carb set ups and dual quad cars were notorious for flooding and knocking out bearings.. All of todays injected cars, even HellCats, are run so lean that most of the lope you feel at idle and even low throttle conditions is actually lean run misfire within the cylinders and especially noticeable on decel causing the backfiring (popping) you hear in HellCats or really any car with louder exhaust systems--highly muffled exhaust systems just cover up the decel popping in all cars.. On wide open throttle application, the injectors begin dumping fuel into the cylinders BUT sequential fuel injection still makes the cylinders burn clean. This is for ALL manufacturers, not just Dodge.
Unless you are in a lot of ongoing race conditions or run the living sh_ t out of your car, bordering abuse, there's no advantage to early oil change intervals in todays modern injected cars. With synthetic oils and lean run cylinders (all manufacturers) most engine designs and fuel management systems will easily go 15,000 mile intervals and some 20,000--supercharged and turbo charged engines with the pressured induction, will push the intervals down to 10,000 miles. I don't drive my HellCats like a baby carriage--yet I don't abuse them either--I drive my cars very spirited daily and I do 10,000 miles..
Good luck and spend your money as you please but these are the facts. Hope it helps.

Thank you for the very detailed information I appreciate it

 

[Chris jimenez]

It's a waste of time, energy and money to change the oil that soon--period.. I have owned several SRT products, raced cars all my life, built engines, been involved with Nascar and owned just about every significant muscle car ever built and early oil changes don't do anything to prevent engine wear in todays modern engines--I've never had a single mechanical issue due to oil life and never changed the oil any sooner than 10,000 miles (modern cars)--even the first one. Shavings in the oil?? If the engine has any shavings in it, it won't matter how often you change the oil--you then have catastrophic issues going on and changing oil won't change or save a thing..
Here's the thing--either a engine is "right" from the get go--or it's bad from the get go--changing oil early doesn't change the original engine build. Oil only gets dirty from combustion chamber blow by into the crank case and it's fuel residue which makes the oil darker--not engine shavings.. With sequential port fuel injection, the fuel efficiencies are so good that the blow by into the crank is almost zero--back in the day, oil would get highly contaminated by excessive fuel in the cylinders from carbueration and poorer ring control design--flooding was also common in carbed cars and the oil viscosity would be so severly reduced, that it caused main and rods bearings to get washed/knocked out--but not anymore.. 3x2 carb set ups and dual quad cars were notorious for flooding and knocking out bearings.. All of todays injected cars, even HellCats, are run so lean that most of the lope you feel at idle and even low throttle conditions is actually lean run misfire within the cylinders and especially noticeable on decel causing the backfiring (popping) you hear in HellCats or really any car with louder exhaust systems--highly muffled exhaust systems just cover up the decel popping in all cars.. On wide open throttle application, the injectors begin dumping fuel into the cylinders BUT sequential fuel injection still makes the cylinders burn clean. This is for ALL manufacturers, not just Dodge.
Unless you are in a lot of ongoing race conditions or run the living sh_ t out of your car, bordering abuse, there's no advantage to early oil change intervals in todays modern injected cars. With synthetic oils and lean run cylinders (all manufacturers) most engine designs and fuel management systems will easily go 15,000 mile intervals and some 20,000--supercharged and turbo charged engines with the pressured induction, will push the intervals down to 10,000 miles. I don't drive my HellCats like a baby carriage--yet I don't abuse them either--I drive my cars very spirited daily and I do 10,000 miles..
Good luck and spend your money as you please but these are the facts. Hope it helps.

You can go more miles than 500. Change it for peace of mind if nothing else. Your engine has been broken in at the factory for 42 minutes on a dyno already.
The key to breaking everything else in is just not stomp on it and shock the drivetrain. Ive never stuck to the rpm limitations exactly, three of these now with zero issues. Just try and vary your rpm‘s and not drone along at the same rpm’s for too long.

Can’t put a price on peace of mind

 

[Chris jimenez]

Can’t put a price on peace of mind

What’s $90 after you spent $90000 LOL

 

[Jimmy N.]

As mentioned above, new engines (and other components) aren't always as clean as they could be.

Took a 500-mile sample on a GM engine, and it had extremely high levels of silicon. Must likely casting sand, and obviously the filter hadn't caught all of it.

Another example is what I found in the diff of a Ram at just over 1,000 miles. Normally I get that taken care of at about 500, but as my luck goes, this one was late.
Thankfully they come with a magnetic plug, just not large enough to hold all the crap that was in there. A couple of fluid changes and many cleanings of the plug (now with "only" fine particles on it), some 18,000 miles later, that axle is still doing well.

How much would not changing the oil early in that Chevy have mattered? How long would that rear axle have survived had I not checked it early? I dunno, but it's a fairly safe bet that both will last much longer than if I had followed the manual instead of changing early.

 

[LIcat]

My Redeye is sitting right now at 666 miles, I already have one & filter on hand for the 1000 mile mark.

The Number of the Beast!
Great song

 

[102542]

As mentioned above, new engines (and other components) aren't always as clean as they could be.

Took a 500-mile sample on a GM engine, and it had extremely high levels of silicon. Must likely casting sand, and obviously the filter hadn't caught all of it.

Another example is what I found in the diff of a Ram at just over 1,000 miles. Normally I get that taken care of at about 500, but as my luck goes, this one was late.
Thankfully they come with a magnetic plug, just not large enough to hold all the crap that was in there. A couple of fluid changes and many cleanings of the plug (now with "only" fine particles on it), some 18,000 miles later, that axle is still doing well.

How much would not changing the oil early in that Chevy have mattered? How long would that rear axle have survived had I not checked it early? I dunno, but it's a fairly safe bet that both will last much longer than if I had followed the manual instead of changing early. View attachment 575312 View attachment 575313

sorry--I can't believe that much crap came out of a 500 mile diff and that a lubrication change cured it?? Your pictures show a FAILED component not just excessive wear. There's NO WAY to cure and correct any mechanical unit that has that much material in it--no way, engine or differntial. In fact that's what a warranty is for--failures.. I wouldn't want any oringinal equipped car to have this type of wear and HOPE that I postponed the replacement of the failed part..

 

[Jimmy N.]

sorry--I can't believe that much crap came out of a 500 mile diff and that a lubrication change cured it?? Your pictures show a FAILED component not just excessive wear. There's NO WAY to cure and correct any mechanical unit that has that much material in it--no way, engine or differntial. In fact that's what a warranty is for--failures.. I wouldn't want any oringinal equipped car to have this type of wear and HOPE that I postponed the replacement of the failed part..

As mentioned, it was at just over 1,000 miles, not the 500 I normally check a diff at.

Either way, many told me that the diff would be toast, but since I'd rather pay for new gears, bearings, etc. myself than subject a vehicle to a dealer, I opted to see what would happen. Also, I made the selling dealer aware of the issue, just in case.

More importantly, I doubt that the photos show a failed component (okay, I know they don't since it still works, and quietly) but rather leftovers from machining the housing and/or differential. Something just wasn't cleaned out properly.

Bottom line is still that it can pay off big time to change fluids and check things early. Every new or new-to-me vehicle goes right from the trailer onto the lift. I go over everything the best I can, and have found several fluid levels low, and a few fasteners not correctly torqued.
That's partially to keep me safe, and partially to avoid having to go to a dealer.