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2020 Challenger Hellcat
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In Florida, we have FHP Challengers (they're just 5.7s with a thermostat and additional radiators). Florida also has tons of grey, black, and white unmarked Chargers. Specific to the City of Tallahassee, they run traffic with 4 Kia Souls (all 4 are unmarked radar vehicles that hand off to marked units for traffic stops).

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Charger SRT 392
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White is a highly underrated color. If you see it side by side with other colors, it is surprising how it stands out, like sublime or mango, just a bit more conservative.
I've had a Indigo Blue, two Triple Nickels, and a Frostbite for Chargers.....BUT my current white Daytona 392 has gotten the most compliments/looks all the time.
I wouldn't have guessed that
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat
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I've had a Indigo Blue, two Triple Nickels, and a Frostbite for Chargers.....BUT my current white Daytona 392 has gotten the most compliments/looks all the time.
I wouldn't have guessed that
High contrast colors are always super popular. My T/A 392 (white knuckle) got a lot of comments, but never won an award at any car show I took it out to. The purple Hellcat trophies every time, go figure. White/black is just a timeless combination.
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye
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731 Posts
High contrast colors are always super popular. My T/A 392 (white knuckle) got a lot of comments, but never won an award at any car show I took it out to. The purple Hellcat trophies every time, go figure. White/black is just a timeless combination.
My first Camaro was Synergy Green Metallic.... and I could go just about anywhere with it and the women would come out of the woodwork to tell me how they loved the color or it was their favorite color. Guys really didn't seem to care about it as much, but it is still the best looking color car I've ever owned personally.

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My first Camaro was Synergy Green Metallic.... and I could go just about anywhere with it and the women would come out of the woodwork to tell me how they loved the color or it was their favorite color. Guys really didn't seem to care about it as much, but it is still the best looking color car I've ever owned personally.
When I was in my car cruzin days , way back when a guy in town had a green 69 z28 with the white stripes very sweet ride.....In my book anyway
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye
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731 Posts
Yea what happens when the Hellcat get mods?? LOL
Mod for mod, I'll take the ZL1... because at the end of the day, on a normal street tire, regardless of power, it will still be able to corner...

But I digress, you still missed the point....
 

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Challenger SRT Hellcat
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Yes, with you there, my friend. Like my insurance guy said (he's a big car guy), you can outrun 99% of the cars on the road in town - but I have nothing to prove to any numbnut who pulls up wanting to race. I enjoy driving mine and it is my only car and is a daily driver. So far, with 50K miles, the only issue has been the rotors on the brakes and it was expensive - but those are the kinds of things you must accept when you buy a high performance car.
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat
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My first Camaro was Synergy Green Metallic.... and I could go just about anywhere with it and the women would come out of the woodwork to tell me how they loved the color or it was their favorite color. Guys really didn't seem to care about it as much, but it is still the best looking color car I've ever owned personally.

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Color, it's neat. I do prefer the earlier Camaros over what they later mutated into. But, you can sort of see how they were making mistakes even early on. The side mirrors are angular, where nothing much else is. This disjointed design methodology is what cost GM in the looks department, IMO. Later models just took this to a ludicrous level. I remember when these first came out, I told my wife I kinda liked them from the rear and the rear quarter view because the car had nice "hips."
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye
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Color, it's neat. I do prefer the earlier Camaros over what they later mutated into. But, you can sort of see how they were making mistakes even early on. The side mirrors are angular, where nothing much else is. This disjointed design methodology is what cost GM in the looks department, IMO. Later models just took this to a ludicrous level. I remember when these first came out, I told my wife I kinda liked them from the rear and the rear quarter view because the car had nice "hips."
I like both, but I don't like any of the refreshes that GM has done for either model. I really can't figure out what their idiots in the marketing department were doing because they lost out on so much opportunity. Truthfully, I loved the 5th gen look the most, as I felt like it really was a modern reinvention of the 69 Camaro. That car, is what got me into cars at a very young age.

That said, I can certainly see your point of view and I don't disagree with much of it. When it comes to the 6th gen Camaro, the only reason to buy one is the ZL1, the rest is just trash.. (Although the SS 1LE is a damn fine psuedo track car for those amateurs).
 

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Yeah, the Camaro is definitely world class in terms of performance. I don't think you can blame the marketing though, really. While they didn't have many tongue-in-cheek ads like Dodge, Chevy outspent both Ford and Dodge on marketing for the Camaro (Transformers, Green Lantern movie product placements). If anyone saw it on the road, they knew it was a Camaro. The problem was that it looked like a Mustang, and early on its development, it trailed it in performance. The Mustang had more classic lines, where the Camaro tried to appeal to a younger crowd that tends to favor the edgy design.

The problem with that is, younger people don't have a lot of money. Re-enter the Mustang. Not only did it perform better, it was considerably less expensive.So, for years after, Chevy kept trying to up the ante on design enhancements to try and shout, "LOOK AT ME!" In so doing, they accidentally made it ugly. Edgy, angular, whatever... all well and good so long as it looks nice (Lexus LC). Problem is, Chevy's latest iterations don't look nice. So, instead of something looking new and fashionable, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Thus, it ended up less attractive and more expensive than something it only barely out-performs.
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye
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The problem with that is, younger people don't have a lot of money. Re-enter the Mustang. Not only did it perform better, it was considerably less expensive.So, for years after, Chevy kept trying to up the ante on design enhancements to try and shout, "LOOK AT ME!" In so doing, they accidentally made it ugly. Edgy, angular, whatever... all well and good so long as it looks nice (Lexus LC). Problem is, Chevy's latest iterations don't look nice. So, instead of something looking new and fashionable, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Thus, it ended up less attractive and more expensive than something it only barely out-performs.
The irony is that the 5th gen outsold the Mustang every year it was in production.... because it was cheaper. Then, when the 6th gen came out, they no longer had the cheap model and that's when it all began to go downhill. Add to the fact that a great many Camaro fans wanted a new "2nd Gen" Camaro instead of a remodeled 5th gen...and it didnt help at all. I paid $30k for a brand new 1SS V8 6 spd manual Camaro with 420hp/420 ftlbs torque in 2011. In 2016, the same car cost almost 42k... it was exactly as you said...price tag..

GM keeps producing better performing vehicles, but their choices and lack of follow up seems to doom every single one. About the only Mustang I'd consider buying today would be a GT500, and even then, only because it would be worth holding on to. That said, if I have to hear another Mustang owner complain about how small the Camaro is.... I'm going to slap someone...
 

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Challenger SRT Hellcat
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I just my 6th gen and went back to a Hellcat. I’ll give Chevy credit and say the car was built remarkably well. Not a squeak, a rattle, or anything negative to say about the build quality. It just wasn’t as exciting as the Hellcat for me personally. Certainly not a bad car though. Would have been great if I was road racing.
 

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2021 WB HC Charger White Knuckle
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85 Posts
Mod for mod, I'll take the ZL1... because at the end of the day, on a normal street tire, regardless of power, it will still be able to corner...

But I digress, you still missed the point....
Well I was just saying I like the Hellcat much better than the Little Camaro and really care less about corners! I owned a couple Chevelle's and wished for them to come back as well as a GTO and of course they came back but not a GTO, never was a bucket of bolts type guy for ride of the Camaros, Vets, Stangs in the 60's or 70's. But to each their own as long as your happy...but mod for mod the Muscle cars are not a corner car at all nor was they ever intended to be. Hellcats can mod too is all I was saying and not pony car. But like them all how could we not :)?
 

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The irony is that the 5th gen outsold the Mustang every year it was in production.... because it was cheaper. Then, when the 6th gen came out, they no longer had the cheap model and that's when it all began to go downhill. Add to the fact that a great many Camaro fans wanted a new "2nd Gen" Camaro instead of a remodeled 5th gen...and it didnt help at all. I paid $30k for a brand new 1SS V8 6 spd manual Camaro with 420hp/420 ftlbs torque in 2011. In 2016, the same car cost almost 42k... it was exactly as you said...price tag..
I think GM's problem stems from the fact that they rush a half-baked idea to market and screw it up. Over at least the past 50 years, GM has been 1-2 steps behind the other auto manufacturers in terms of tech and engineering design. In the 60s, Ford came out with the Pony car and GM responded with a clone. A more powerful clone, but one that was much more expensive. Flash forward to 1993. Chevy launched the 4th Gen a year ahead of the upcoming Mustang reboot. For its day, GM simple expanded on the 3rd Gen... in that it was longer and wider and really just a further iteration of the 3rd Gen format's foundation. You can really see the similarity if you look at a late 3rd gen and 4th gen from the front. This was GM doing the business of "taking the piss." They didn't really innovate, just made a new-ish looking car with similar tech and shoved it into a new-ish body that followed the same general dimensions of the previous (long rectangular shape, but with rounded corners this time).

They did this to try and beat Ford to market on the new Mustang. The new Mustang featured new everything. New 4.6L modular engine, entirely new chassis and bodywork, all new interiors and so on. It was retro styled to hearken back to the 1965 Mustang. While the Mustang was piss poor underpowered (even the Cobra retained the older 5.0 for the first 2 years), it sold like mad, and Chevy paid the price for it.

If you look at the first 2 years of Camaro production, they sold 40k in 1993 (partial year production), then were up to normal in 1994 with 125,000 produced. This was the 4th gen's peak. They sold 122k the next year, then the Mustang started destroying GM. Ford Mustangs sold like this: 1994: 123,000. 1995: 185,000. 1996:135,000. And, by 2000, Ford made their peak at 215,000. Also in 2000, Chevy made 45,000 Camaros.

The prime reason for the huge uptick in Mustang sales had to do with the 1999 facelift that improved the Mustang's looks. It worked and nearly doubled their sales rates. GM didn't really do anything cosmetically aside from tweaks here and there, like with the removal of the inset headlights and front fascia styling updates. Overall, year to year, the Camaro Z28 was more powerful than the Mustang GT and the SS was faster than the Cobra. These were the cars I grew up racing against in my late teens and early 20s. In stock trim, a Mustang had nothing on these... but they didn't sell.

That's because what went on back then is what they're doing now and they're finding similar results. Joe Public largely doesn't give 2 squats about competitive performance. People like me and many here do, but we ain't normal. GM tends to favor performance, but they build ugly cars. Sometimes, like with the 4th gen, it was only termed ugly after Ford blew its pants off with the new Mustang. Had they continued on with the Fox body, the Gen 4 Camaro would have done great. My wife loves the 3rd gen Camaro and Firebirds... but she hates the 4th Gen. She thinks they're too wide and have "bubble butts." I kind of like them, then again I married my wife who also has a bubble butt. When compared to the Mustang though, it's hard for most people to deny that the 4th gen Mustang is simply a classically more attractive car. By a 10:1 margin in 2000, the rest of the world agrees.

GM has a habit of reacting to the market, not commanding it. Hence why the 4th Gen was not a revolutionary thing, overall. GM execs are well-known to be adverse to taking risks. But, as they say in business, "Failure to innovate is a plan to fail." While some parts of the whole are innovative, the whole of the car was not. This is very similar to what happened with the 5th gen.

I may catch some hell for this, but the 5th gen was a copy of a 5th gen Mustang. They took the styling and general dimensions and outright copied it (because GM execs don't like risk and they knew it was selling, so they copied a 5 year old design). Then, to rub it in Ford's face, they dropped in an engine that had 100hp more than the Mustang and said, "Hee-hee, haha." By the end of the next year though, Ford dropped the Coyote bomb on them, and that was that. Ford sold a million 5th gen Mustangs to Chevy's 623,000 5th gen Camaros.

Again, even the early Coyotes were slower than the SS of comparable years. People, however, don't pay attention to such things. Time and again, interior and exterior styling rated the Mustang higher, and the Mustang was almost always cheaper. Of the 5th gen, the biggest detractions have been poor interior ergonomics, poor interior quality, bad exterior trim fit and finish (all the plastic do-nothing bits slapped all over them from fake hood scoops to go-nowhere vents). Nobody says anything bad about the Camaro performance. That's because it was good... and Joe Public doesn't really know the difference between a Camaro, a Mustang, and a Jetta under the hood. They instead opted to buy the cheaper, better looking car.

For all that it is, GM has not, to my knowledge, ever produced a sexy, cheaper car than its competition. It's produced faster ones, more expensive ones, and sexy ones... but they have yet to grasp the notion that looks are king and cost is queen. It hurts me to even say it, but performance particulars don't factor in with most people. Sure, they want a performance car, but I honestly believe you could drop a 250hp engine with a loud exhaust in a Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger... put a Hellcat, SS, or Cobra badge on it... film some burnouts on YouTube and you'd get hordes of these people jumping in to buy them, even if the turbo 4 banger base models make 100hp more. This would work, so long as you deleted the internet and its ability to say, "Hey now... what the fudge is this nonsense..."
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye
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Well I was just saying I like the Hellcat much better than the Little Camaro and really care less about corners! I owned a couple Chevelle's and wished for them to come back as well as a GTO and of course they came back but not a GTO, never was a bucket of bolts type guy for ride of the Camaros, Vets, Stangs in the 60's or 70's. But to each their own as long as your happy...but mod for mod the Muscle cars are not a corner car at all nor was they ever intended to be. Hellcats can mod too is all I was saying and not pony car. But like them all how could we not :)?
The point that was being made was that bone stock its a drivers race, and if you actually made the ZL1 have the same HP (not modding, but from factory) then the ZL1 actually wins. GM had a kit that made the ZL1 do a 10 sec flat 1/4 mile....warranty covered package (ala Redeye if you will)..

GM simply failed to push the envelope... imagine an LT5 powered ZL1... 755 hp...

I've seen 8-9 second ZL1s without significant engine changes... so its not like they're slouches either..

And yeah, mod for mod, its crazy for sure... on any car..
 

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2021 WB HC Charger White Knuckle
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The point that was being made was that bone stock its a drivers race, and if you actually made the ZL1 have the same HP (not modding, but from factory) then the ZL1 actually wins. GM had a kit that made the ZL1 do a 10 sec flat 1/4 mile....warranty covered package (ala Redeye if you will)..

GM simply failed to push the envelope... imagine an LT5 powered ZL1... 755 hp...

I've seen 8-9 second ZL1s without significant engine changes... so its not like they're slouches either..

And yeah, mod for mod, its crazy for sure... on any car..
No there not a slouch for sure, but for many years stock for stock with weight factors being equal the Hemi ran like hell out of box on the 1/4 mile any day as well on the streets pulling more weight over the pony cars way back then with HP in big blocks being even up back then too 426\ 425 Cuda running 396/375 HP Chevelle's was not weight equal or 426 Chargers running 427 Camaros and Duces either but they did most of us played with rear ends as mods in those day to equal out the weights from stock...lol. Today its all different you have stock out of the box rides turning in the 1/4 what Super Stockers turned in the 1/4 back in the 60's and 70's!! So much fun then and so much fun now to be had but in different rides today with a total different ball game then the old school days....old fart like me just sits back and loves it all! I can recall the stock small block 302 Camaros that would run like a scalded dog back in 69 ....they were a small blocks that got laughed at and made a many big blocks get embarrassed to their knees!!! I also recall YANKO Corvair (not many made) that had 110 HP that pulled a many stock big block out of red light for about the first two gears with 98% all Rides being 4 speeds at the time!! Sorry....Got carried away.....:)
 

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Point blank I was a Pontiac guy and had a 2001 WS6 NHRA car ( 2 GTO's and 3 other F body's between 1978 and 2021) .... I can not see out of a Camaro with a helmet on and it is not comfortable for my build. Totally respect ZL1/ZR1 and any Rouch and or GT XXX cars out there...

I am new to the Dodge brand but pretty happy with power and comfort.
 
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