[Cat_On_Tren]

Already have MT street R's in 305-45-17's and a track with good prep so traction wouldn't be much of an issue.

I'm gunna race in the colder months to wait for some good weather to come around for better E.Ts.

So just curious to know what bang for buck mods that are still safe and reliable for a stock 717 Cat to use to run a 10 flat or even crack into the high 9's if possible in good DA?

I'm not sure about using e-85 or other race fuels yet but I'm open to hear opinions. TIA

 

[drive_55_not]

Already have MT street R's in 305-45-17's and a track with good prep so traction wouldn't be much of an issue.

I'm gunna race in the colder months to wait for some good weather to come around for better E.Ts.

So just curious to know what bang for buck mods that are still safe and reliable for a stock 717 Cat to use to run a 10 flat or even crack into the high 9's if possible in good DA?

I'm not sure about using e-85 or other race fuels yet but I'm open to hear opinions. TIA

2.85 pulley, injectors, BAP or dual pumps, 2.62 rear and Race Gas or corn will get a full weight 'Cat a high 9 in 50 degree air. Weight reduction should net a 9,8xx

The more timing you run, the faster you will go ... If you are willing to risk the biskit with 93 with an octane booster, and your tuner is willing to give you 14? degrees you should run a 9 in good air on pump93.

Heat is the killer, or neutralizer with these PD blowers,

I ran 10,15x @136,xx on MS109 in 80degree air, Logs showed manifold temps were 165 at the end

I ran 10,22x @136 in 92degree air on E80 a couple weeks ago, Log showed manifold temps were 175.

That's the big reason you want a race fuel that's more heat tolerant. You run a risk of detonation on 93 and leaving a piston, or 2 in the oil pan.

Good luck ...

.

 

[baabootoo]

Nitrous Outlet 00-10158-12 - Nitrous Outlet Nitrous Oxide Plate Systems
2015+ Dodge SRT 6.2L Supercharged Hemi Hellcat Plate System (50-200HP) (10LB Bottle)
Part Number: NXO-00-10158-12
Not Yet Reviewed
Ships Directly From Supplier
Estimated Ship Date: Jul 26, 2022 (if ordered today)

• Drop Ship
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$1,516.99

Yes, dedicated fuel system to use race gas.

 

[Cat_On_Tren]

2.85 pulley, injectors, BAP or dual pumps, 2.62 rear and Race Gas or corn will get a full weight 'Cat a high 9 in 50 degree air. Weight reduction should net a 9,8xx

The more timing you run, the faster you will go ... If you are willing to risk the biskit with 93 with an octane booster, and your tuner is willing to give you 14? degrees you should run a 9 in good air on pump93.

Heat is the killer, or neutralizer with these PD blowers,

I ran 10,15x @136,xx on MS109 in 80degree air, Logs showed manifold temps were 165 at the end

I ran 10,22x @136 in 92degree air on E80 a couple weeks ago, Log showed manifold temps were 175.

That's the big reason you want a race fuel that's more heat tolerant. You run a risk of detonation on 93 and leaving a piston, or 2 in the oil pan.

Good luck ...

.

Good info you shared here, appreciate it. Yea I definitely don't want to risk it for the biscuit. I'd rather make as much power as I can safely without jeopardizing reliability much. I definitely see the race fuel is very much needed as you made a good point so it looks like I would need to be tuned for that.

1. Are FIC1000 injectors sufficient to run MS109 race fuel or do I need to go bigger?

2. What's your take on running MS109 vs running e-85? I know I need to run bigger injectors for the e-85 but is one race fuel safer than the other to use?

3. I'm thinking of going with the mods you mentioned like the 2.85 pulley, upgraded, injectors, pcm tune, as well as a tcm tune and see how that works out for my goal. It will be tuned on 93 but you definitely recommend also being tuned for MS109 race fuel?

 

[Bhdau1]

If you have good E85 available at the pump where you live that's what you should go with. If you set up the car properly to run E85 you will already be set up to maximize 93 octane as well if that makes sense. If you just set the car up to maximize power on 93 octane you wont necessarily be able to run E85. If you go with E85 you can get a tuning tool with 2 different tunes on it and two different quick-change style upper pulleys for the SC, one for 93 and one for E85. E85 makes the most power, is cheaper than 93 octane, resists detonation much better than 93 octane, and burns a lot colder than 93 octane. Literally the ONLY advantage of running 93 octane is the availability of 93 at any gas station. While E85 requires about 20% more fuel than 93 octane (thus the need for larger injectors and more output from your fuel pump(s)) the cheaper cost of E85 offsets the added expense of more fuel burned per mile.

 

[Cat_On_Tren]

If you have good E85 available at the pump where you live that's what you should go with. If you set up the car properly to run E85 you will already be set up to maximize 93 octane as well if that makes sense. If you just set the car up to maximize power on 93 octane you wont necessarily be able to run E85. If you go with E85 you can get a tuning tool with 2 different tunes on it and two different quick-change style upper pulleys for the SC, one for 93 and one for E85. E85 makes the most power, is cheaper than 93 octane, resists detonation much better than 93 octane, and burns a lot colder than 93 octane. Literally the ONLY advantage of running 93 octane is the availability of 93 at any gas station. While E85 requires about 20% more fuel than 93 octane (thus the need for larger injectors and more output from your fuel pump(s)) the cheaper cost of E85 offsets the added expense of more fuel burned per mile.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I had a feeling that some sort of race fuel was that next little edge after a tune, pulley, and injector upgrade to get that 9.99 time slip but unfortunately I don’t really have e-85 all that much around here and I’m not even sure of the quality of it. Seems like there is more responsibility with it as I would have to test the content of it at the gas station and all. I wasn’t too keen about adding race fuel as I wanted to keep it simple and still just use 93 pump gas like I regularly do on daily drives and road trips and not have to depend on e-85 only ( when I'm not even sure if there is e-85 around other areas). I have to do a lot of research about these race fuels and weigh the pros and cons to see what's right for me.

Another thing to battle in my mind is which injectors I would run. If I were to potentially use e-85 one day then I would decide to upgrade to the FIC 1200 injectors now but if not them I’ll just stick with just upgrading to FIC 1000 injectors instead.

With all the research that I’ve done, I really thought it was simple to just add 100 HP or so to the wheels with some simple mods like a pulley, tune, injectors and use regular 93 gas like I normally do and daily drive it with no problem. Now the more I look into it seems like I heard it’s not recommended to race on 93 if your modded because the risk of detonating the engine as it’s not that heat tolerant so it gets confusing for me all over again lol. Maybe trying to chase a 9.99 is not a good idea in my case because of lack of e-85 and not being all that much familiar with it as well as other race fuels like MS109.

Basically with a tune, pulley, and upgraded injectors…it’s a low 10’s car depending on DA. With the race fuels it seems like it will knock off a few tenths and give me that little extra edge. It’s something I have to get familiar with before I turn this stock Hellcat into a modded one. I just want to add quite a bit of power and still keep the car reliable without chancing anything. Sure there’s always a risk but I’d like to keep it simple and minimal. I definitely do know those that are running e-85 are pretty fast and it’s definitely the magic sauce. That type of fuel to performance cars is basically like what Tren is to performance athletes.

 

[NeverEnough]

Go fast or be reliable, pick 1

 

[Cat_On_Tren]

Go fast or be reliable, pick 1

I'm going to choose to go fast but not try to be the fastest to avoid deep consequences. Life is too short. I'll sacrifice without regret. Enjoy the gains and deal with the side effects...or atleast mitigate/minimize the sides as best as I can....

 

[Trizzle]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I had a feeling that some sort of race fuel was that next little edge after a tune, pulley, and injector upgrade to get that 9.99 time slip but unfortunately I don’t really have e-85 all that much around here and I’m not even sure of the quality of it. Seems like there is more responsibility with it as I would have to test the content of it at the gas station and all. I wasn’t too keen about adding race fuel as I wanted to keep it simple and still just use 93 pump gas like I regularly do on daily drives and road trips and not have to depend on e-85 only ( when I'm not even sure if there is e-85 around other areas). I have to do a lot of research about these race fuels and weigh the pros and cons to see what's right for me.

Another thing to battle in my mind is which injectors I would run. If I were to potentially use e-85 one day then I would decide to upgrade to the FIC 1200 injectors now but if not them I’ll just stick with just upgrading to FIC 1000 injectors instead.

With all the research that I’ve done, I really thought it was simple to just add 100 HP or so to the wheels with some simple mods like a pulley, tune, injectors and use regular 93 gas like I normally do and daily drive it with no problem. Now the more I look into it seems like I heard it’s not recommended to race on 93 if your modded because the risk of detonating the engine as it’s not that heat tolerant so it gets confusing for me all over again lol. Maybe trying to chase a 9.99 is not a good idea in my case because of lack of e-85 and not being all that much familiar with it as well as other race fuels like MS109.

Basically with a tune, pulley, and upgraded injectors…it’s a low 10’s car depending on DA. With the race fuels it seems like it will knock off a few tenths and give me that little extra edge. It’s something I have to get familiar with before I turn this stock Hellcat into a modded one. I just want to add quite a bit of power and still keep the car reliable without chancing anything. Sure there’s always a risk but I’d like to keep it simple and minimal. I definitely do know those that are running e-85 are pretty fast and it’s definitely the magic sauce. That type of fuel to performance cars is basically like what Tren is to performance athletes.

MS109 will be your best bet then. Stock fuel pump should be fine and i was told demon injectors or id1050x would be plenty for race gas. Start with a lower pulley so you can pin the crank asap. Honestly from my little experience in the last couple of years, money spent into getting a consistently low 60ft is just as good or better then adding more power. Suspension set up and the right tire will go a long way. In my race pickup i ran last year i went from 8.73 to 8.06 just from adjustable shocks, a good tire, and good air.

 

[HC5120]

Go fast or be reliable, pick 1

Fast, reliable, cheap. Pick two.

 

[Snowman]

Go fast or be reliable, pick 1

Can’t say I completely agree with this without bringing budget into the conversation. When I first met with my builder dependability and street manners were my top priorities, but also with a goal of 920whp minimum. I arbitrarily chose that goal because I was shooting for 1000 at the crank. Drop a Whipple on it with all of the supporting engine, trans, and suspension mods and you can be well into the 9’s on 93, and deep into the 9’s on race fuel. But, it ain’t gonna be cheap! It could be done In stages if budget is a concern, with suspension first, then trans and engine upgrades, and the Whipple last.

 

[Cat_On_Tren]

MS109 will be your best bet then. Stock fuel pump should be fine and i was told demon injectors or id1050x would be plenty for race gas. Start with a lower pulley so you can pin the crank asap. Honestly from my little experience in the last couple of years, money spent into getting a consistently low 60ft is just as good or better then adding more power. Suspension set up and the right tire will go a long way. In my race pickup i ran last year i went from 8.73 to 8.06 just from adjustable shocks, a good tire, and good air.

Very impressive and good advice about improving the 60ft with suspension upgrades and the adding the right tire. I have 17x10 Forgestar D5s on 305-45-17 MT street Rs but I'll look into the suspension upgrades.

And thank you, it looks like the MS109 is the more we'll rounded option race fuel to use for my situation. I'm going to go with the FIC1000 injectors as opposed to the ID 1050X because there just as good and pretty much the same while the FIC1000 are a more bang for buck being a couple hundred bucks cheaper.

I'm assuming the FIC1000 injectors are big enough to accommodate the MS109 race fuel and both an upper and lower pulley combination in the future?

Also I was going to have the crank pinned anyway when getting my first set of mods done with the upgraded injectors and 2.85 upper pulley.

I've heard of some folks starting with a lower pulley first but did enough research to feel comfortable enough to start with a 2.85 upper. Besides it being easier to pin the crank starting with a lower pulley any other reason to start with a lower vs my plan of starting with a 2.85 upper?

 

[Trizzle]

Very impressive and good advice about improving the 60ft with suspension upgrades and the adding the right tire. I have 17x10 Forgestar D5s on 305-45-17 MT street Rs but I'll look into the suspension upgrades.

And thank you, it looks like the MS109 is the more we'll rounded option race fuel to use for my situation. I'm going to go with the FIC1000 injectors as opposed to the ID 1050X because there just as good and pretty much the same while the FIC1000 are a more bang for buck being a couple hundred bucks cheaper.

I'm assuming the FIC1000 injectors are big enough to accommodate the MS109 race fuel and both an upper and lower pulley combination in the future?

Also I was going to have the crank pinned anyway when getting my first set of mods done with the upgraded injectors and 2.85 upper pulley.

I've heard of some folks starting with a lower pulley first but did enough research to feel comfortable enough to start with a 2.85 upper. Besides it being easier to pin the crank starting with a lower pulley any other reason to start with a lower vs my plan of starting with a 2.85 upper?

The fic 1000's should be plenty for any sort of race gas build you throw at it. I would start with the lower as apposed to the 2.85 just to pin the crank and have a 3ish psi increase also. I figure if youre down there going through the hassle of drilling out the crank you might as well be throwing the pulley on too. Just personal preference.

 

[NeverEnough]

Can’t say I completely agree with this without bringing budget into the conversation. When I first met with my builder dependability and street manners were my top priorities, but also with a goal of 920whp minimum. I arbitrarily chose that goal because I was shooting for 1000 at the crank. Drop a Whipple on it with all of the supporting engine, trans, and suspension mods and you can be well into the 9’s on 93, and deep into the 9’s on race fuel. But, it ain’t gonna be cheap! It could be done In stages if budget is a concern, with suspension first, then trans and engine upgrades, and the Whipple last.

How many of these 1khp Hellcats are daily driven, though? I would love to just get 800 or more WHP out of mine, but it's my daily & I do not track it so I'd rather have no doubts that it's reliable. Maybe in the future I will mod.

 

[Trizzle]

How many of these 1khp Hellcats are daily driven, though? I would love to just get 800 or more WHP out of mine, but it's my daily & I do not track it so I'd rather have no doubts that it's reliable. Maybe in the future I will mod.

If you have straight E85 local is do able but otherwise ms109 or equivalent is $13 a gallon or more. Lot of money to daily a 1khp car.

 

[NeverEnough]

If you have straight E85 local is do able but otherwise ms109 or equivalent is $13 a gallon or more. Lot of money to daily a 1khp car.

Never said I wanted 1k HP. No E85 easy to get here.

 

[Bhdau1]

How many of these 1khp Hellcats are daily driven, though? I would love to just get 800 or more WHP out of mine, but it's my daily & I do not track it so I'd rather have no doubts that it's reliable. Maybe in the future I will mod.

I drive mine all the time in the summer and spring. I'm at 950 rear wheel horsepower on pump E85. But I am lucky in that all the E85 in Lexington for the last 4 or 5 months at any of the stations selling it has tested 85 to 90%. I had planned to swap it back to 93 octane and run less boost unless I was taking it the track but I haven't because it runs perfect and is totally streetable. I will say this, I spent a lot of time and money to get my car to this point, and when I got to where I needed HHP to do any further modifications I made sure we went with the very best, most reliable, over-built parts available. So far it is just as reliable as it was stock.

 

[Jonx96]

Cheapest way would be 2.75 pulley octane boost or race gas injectors and a tune. It will take the right air and the right driver it wont just happen. If you go a dedicated race gas tune for lets say ms109 than it would but much easier. E85 would also make it much easier but then you'll spend a little more on the fuel system. It is really up to you on how much you want to spend.
I was track tuning a car a few weeks ago it was in the 80s he was in the 9s with a 2.75 upper and e85. I will never promise anyone a time though.

 

[Cat_On_Tren]

I drive mine all the time in the summer and spring. I'm at 950 rear wheel horsepower on pump E85. But I am lucky in that all the E85 in Lexington for the last 4 or 5 months at any of the stations selling it has tested 85 to 90%. I had planned to swap it back to 93 octane and run less boost unless I was taking it the track but I haven't because it runs perfect and is totally streetable. I will say this, I spent a lot of time and money to get my car to this point, and when I got to where I needed HHP to do any further modifications I made sure we went with the very best, most reliable, over-built parts available. So far it is just as reliable as it was stock.

Amazing its still reliable as it was stock at your power level. All the research and time you invested into your car was well worth it. Your a smart guy and made smart moves so it pays off you went the right direction with your build.

 

[Unavowed]

Twins.