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Brake Fluid & Brake Pads for Track?

8K views 33 replies 19 participants last post by  SIXGUN 
#1 ·
Have been out of track stuff for ~4 years now bc life got in the way. (I used to have a NASA comp license, raced a Thunder Roadster & was one of the first nationally certified NASA track instructors starting back in 2004.) But I'm getting back into it now with just doing DE. I plan on taking my MY20 WB Charger to Roebling Road Raceway in a couple of weeks. From what I've read, the conventional wisdom for brake fluid is Castrol SRF & the OEM Brembo brake pads are good enough.

How much brake fluid am I gonna need to purge/change out the entire system?

If not the OEM pads, what's recommended? (I don't mind having to change the pads at the track.)

TIA for any advice.

(Some of my exploits on my YT Channel throughout the years past.)
 
#2 ·
For brake fluid, I bought the 2-pack of Motul RBF600 and that was plenty.


I did one track day on the stock pads and they were down to the metal. During the track day, there were times where I had to take cooldown laps mid-session because the brake pedal was so soft from the squishy pads.

I run PowerStop Track Day pads now and they just finished up their 4th track day before I needed to change them (fronts were done, rears probably had 2-3 more track days in them). I just put new Track Day pads on last weekend. Once the rotors are done, I'll go to PowerStop Track Day rotors, too. I ran the rotor & pad set on my SRT8 last season and they were great.


I'll probably start going to 3 track days on fronts, 6 track days on rear with 6 track days/rotor set just to make sure I don't go too low on the fronts.

A lot of people swear by Hawk pads, but they're pretty pricey, IMO. I'd have to be convinced they're a significant upgrade in longevity for me to switch to them. When I started out, I was chasing the clock a lot - but these days I would rather have track time instead of an extra 0.1s/lap. And if I'm spending lots of money on brake pads, then that's money I'm not spending on track days. :/
 
#4 ·
For your first outing with the car I think you're on the right track. Get some good brake fluid like the Motul or ATE200 and flush out your stock fluid. 1 liter should be plenty.
I wouldn't worry about brake pads yet unless your stock ones have significant wear. I imagine you're just going to get on the track and get your adrenaline up some the first time. Once you want to dive in harder and heat things up more maybe it will be time to consider some higher friction pads. It's a slippery slope though. Then you'll get the Girodisc rotors and high $ brake fluid and good tires . . .
But you know all that. You used to race. How do you make a fortune in racing . . .
 
#5 ·
First time out? Fresh dot4 of your choice and leave the rest alone. Once you get up to pace though...

Since you previous track experience, I'd say hawk 60s or 70s after the brembos are used up. I could overheat the power stop track day pads at vir after about four flying laps: solid pedal but diminished braking force. I don't have that issue with 60s in my sp. If you're a hellcat, 70s.

The factory rotors are "meh", but fine for initial track use. I switched to DBA rings and like them, but the Girodisc ahem Demon Performance parts are even better if you want to spend the coin.
 
#7 ·
With your previous experience I'm sure you'll be at 10/10ths and finding the limits of tires and brakes by the end of that first track day! Scat Pack Widebody - so 392, 15.4" 6-pots and stock Pirellis?

Many seem to worship Castrol SRF but I'm not racing for a living. A fluid with boiling points over 600F dry & 400F wet with quick bleeds before & after events and semi-annual flushes are more than adequate. Wilwood, Motul, AP Racing, ATE, Endless, Torque, et cetera. (Usually takes me 1.5 bottles of Wilwood/Motul for flushes.)

Many good track compounds are out there (Hawk DTC & Raybestos ST or Wilwood, PFC, Cobalt, Porterfield, Pagid, Ferodo...) but I went with Carbotech XP12 front & XP10 rear. I chose them because that's what NASA Southeast champion Joel Vandiver used on his Pursuit Charger & green 426 Challenger in the early 2010s.
 
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#8 ·
For track use the factory manual calls for DOT 4 fluid to be used. The removal of the DOT 3 fluid needs to be 100% so the fluid flush/bleed needs to operate the ABS pump to flush out any DOT 3 fluid and replace it with DOT 4 fluid. Not sure how much fluid is required to do this. If you can find a table of fluid capacities -- sometimes this is in the owners manual -- this might tell you.

For brake hardware I'd be inclined to at first stick with the factory hardware.

Just be sure the pads have enough material (at least half or more of what they have when new). If you fit new pads before a track day be sure to give them a bedding in before you use the car and the brakes on the track.

At the track you can then look over other cars like yours to see what brake hardware is being used and get some idea of what you might want to use.

I'd also consider improving air flow to the brakes. There is a limit to how well the brakes will work even with special pads due to heat build up. Better cooling can make a world of difference. Not as easy as just replacing the pads, but the return in terms of better braking can be huge.
 
#19 ·
I'd also consider improving air flow to the brakes. There is a limit to how well the brakes will work even with special pads due to heat build up. Better cooling can make a world of difference. Not as easy as just replacing the pads, but the return in terms of better braking can be huge.
You can add these air deflector plates if yours doesn't already have them.
 
#9 ·
Thanks to everyone for their input -- I highly appreciate it. Given the even is 2 weeks away & I needed to make sure I got the parts in time, I've gone with the Power Stop Track Day pads (F/R) & Motul RBF600. (I so wish they'd bring back ATE Blue but I know that's a pipedream.) I should be getting it all next week.

Also, the car I'm driving is a MY20 WB HC Charger with the OEM Pirelli AS high performance tires. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I'll report back after the event.

Again, thanks for everyone's input!
 
#10 ·
Didn't do the NASA-SE track event but went there yesterday for the SCCA Track Nights event. Ran in Advanced Group. Most of the drivers running in Advanced had heavily modified vehicles &/or (non-DOT) race rubber. Other than the aforementioned brake pads & brake fluid changes, I ran a complete OEM set-up.

Here's a video of the last session & description.

Got lots of brake fade from the Power Stop Track Day pads. 🤬

Granted CMP is very hard on brakes. But if I track her again, I plan on getting better brake pads.

Thanks to everyone for their assistance!
 

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#12 ·
Managing the tires was fine & not that difficult. I was constantly having the anti-lock system kick in under heavy braking and with repeated application, the pads would fade. So, I would have to adjust where I applied braking when approaching certain corners knowing the brakes had heated up with prior turns. That was the tricky part & you can see from the vid that I misjudged a few times & overshot the turn-in. I was also utilizing some serious trail braking to get the car to rotate on some of the tighter corners.
 
#16 ·
Sonny200, older thread, got it. I recommend Hawk 70s. My WBRE does well with them, still have to be careful not to overpower the PS4Ss. Very good brakes. Highly recommend the DP rear two piece rotors to replace stock for track, much greater heat dissipation. I replaced front rings with Dba, but have a set of Girodisc replacement rings and hardware for when these are done. Rear DPs look new, replaced at the same time as the Dba front rings. Dbas are really showing their age after about 18 months and several hard weekends in Group 4 with nasa in FL/SE.
 
#17 ·
For me i run castrol srf react.... after tons of research it holds up to the highest temp even after its "wet". Ive seen guys run motul and get brake fade pretty fast. these are really heavy vehicles and they produce alot of heat. and for pads i suggest carbotech. really good guys to work with and really good products. but for the time being your stock pads should be sufficient. enjoy the event!
 
#21 ·
Gents, I purchased Hawk pads and Castrol React SRF fluid. Dealership refused to put the Castrol fluid in the car. Are they aware of something that the rest of us are not? One comment was thR I will need to also install stainless steel brake lines! Thoughts on taking it somewhere less corporate? Am I taking on more risk than I realize with these mods?!

Thanks for your insight
 
#22 ·
Most dealers won't install aftermarket parts they don't supply, for warranty reasons. Also, they just don't want to install something they don't sell (at a markup).

I've been running Castrol SRF in my '93 Viper for 29 years now. I used to race it down at Sebring, Florida where the heat was insane. SRF is THE best fluid there is for heat resistance.

I recently flushed and bled the entire system of the old SRF six months ago and it was still crystal clear when it flushed out. The reason I flushed the brakes was that the clutch master cylinder (which was filled with standard brake fluid) had failed and blew out the throwout bearing internal seals. That was an ugly job - but all my fault since I never flushed the clutch slave cylinder in all those years.
 
#24 ·
Couldn't hurt to get a second bottle. I flushed the Viper out with one bottle, but remember it already had SRF in the system and no ABS units to flush as well.
 
#25 ·
I just installed SS hoses and did a complete fluid flush including my clutch. I used a bit over 2 bottles.
This post suggests you'd need:
  • 32+oz RR
  • 16-20oz LR
  • 16-20oz RF
  • 16oz LF
which is 2.5 bottles.
The manual says for bleeding to do 4oz per bleeder which is 64oz, but that's just to bleed, not flush.
 
#27 ·
That's what Bondurant used to use along with the PowerStop Track Day pads.

Before the Widebody they ran the Goodyear F1 summer tires in 285/35-20 and those were the only mods on the car.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
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#30 · (Edited)
I am not aware of a MOPAR brake duct, but I have the widebody deflectors installed. I could definitely use brake ducts, but I think blowers would be necessary as there is no good place to pick up air for ducts on my WBRE Challenger. Haven't tried G-Loc pads. I had good luck with Hawk 70 pads all around until I got faster, and have now switched to a Girodisc set of pads. Last 3 sets of Hawk 70s I only got 13 sessions out of those, and that only if I flipped them at about half life, and 13 + - sessions at Sebring was approaching metal to metal on one pad. They definitely provide better braking at the expense of putting a whoopin' on my Girodisc rotor rings up front, and looks like they will last at leadt 2x longer than the Hawk 70s. Still have Hawk 70 pads out back on Demon Performance two-piece rotors. The Hawk 70s will hold you for a while at about half the price ($325 a front set) vs the Girodisc pads (pn: GP50-1382.16) which are right at $600 for the front pads. I also added Titanium spacers($100 per pair, front and back) to keep from boiling fluid. between the pads and the caliper. But man, they work great! They are a bit aggressive driving to/from the track, so you will very easily outbreaks other cars behind you, so be careful. On track they are the best I've found with Hawk 70s on the rear.
I do not recommend the OE Brembo pads for the track, as I would have bad pad fade after a couple hot laps, which is not confidence inspiring.
 
#34 ·
The HC and Redeye variants have all the holes in the front fascia already used. Talking with Wesley Motorsports a while back, they said the cooling solution is to wire and plumb cooling ducts with blowers if you are going to race the car or run it at its limit. I cannot suggest a high pressure air location to pick up the cooling air - probably whereever you can find space to run a duct. I suggest hard tracking of the car can certainly benefit from this, although there is a risk of too wide of a temp range from hot to cooling and causing cracking. The new Girodisc pads do put a lot of heat into the front rotors causing heat checking on the first weekend. They work fantastic, but it comes at a price, as these things do.
 
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