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Discussion Starter #1
You know how boys used to want to have a car, and hop it up and make it faster and better, and now they just fap to anime and simp after girls with 20,000,000 followers?

Well, you can help them become men again. Get some fun, fast, cheap cars in your lineup again, to help turn former soyboys into future he-men who have actually touched a human female by the time they are 30.

The Dart failed resoundingly because it had too many doors. You might as well have tried to market a three-wheel Hayabusa.

Dodge fails at small ca... oh, wait, they don't HAVE any small cars, but they failed when they put too many doors on them. 15 year old boys don't need seventeen doors, handicap helper bars, geritol dispensers, and whatever else the race of aliens who visited Earth long enough to destroy your sporty compact car lineup decided they needed.

Have you noticed how literally every automaker on the entire planet except Dodge isn't violently mentally retarded when it comes to this market segment?

You can't create loyalty via direct experience with the youth crowd with a 75k supercar they can't afford to polish, let alone buy.

You create loyalty with good times in fast, stupid, fun cars that are more tire smoke and laughs than they are exotic car performance and unbeatable braking.

Therefore, I challenge you to the following:

Steal a march on the ever-more-sissy other brands of cars by re-introducing the rear-wheel-drive sport compact car!!!

Young bucks will be putting stupidly wide tires on the rear to handle it's smokin' 198 horsepower in short order.

Don't give me the hooey that "OMG le it is le too oxponseeve to puttez-nous les driven rair wheels on ze carz!"

MAKE COMPACT CARS FUN AGAIN!

Disconnect the engine from the driven wheels. How much do driveshafts cost? twenty bucks?

You can do it, Dodge!

PS you can hire me to help guide this next generation of automotive designers who have evidently never even had a date with a human being into making cars that bring people into your brand and keep them there for life.
 

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You know how boys used to want to have a car, and hop it up and make it faster and better, and now they just fap to anime and simp after girls with 20,000,000 followers?

Well, you can help them become men again. Get some fun, fast, cheap cars in your lineup again, to help turn former soyboys into future he-men who have actually touched a human female by the time they are 30.
Weird flex but ok. Do you need to talk to someone?
 

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Time has passed you by without you noticing. The market for small, compact, inexpensive RWD cars is back in 1971. Today's youth has little interest in even driving, let alone buying the car you describe and the vast majority of the ones that do drive know little about cars and view cars as appliances. Boys raised by single mothers don't know anything about cars. The handful of young people left aren't going to support the millions upon millions upon millions of dollars of R&D and government certification required to introduce a car that isn't going to sell or sell at a profit. The world has changed. Hamburgers aren't a quarter anymore. And those damn kids are still on your lawn.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I repeat:

You know how boys used to want to have a car, and hop it up and make it faster and better, and now they just fap to anime and simp after girls with 20,000,000 followers?

Well, you can help them become men again. Get some fun, fast, cheap cars in your lineup again, to help turn former soyboys into future he-men who have actually touched a human female by the time they are 30.

The Dart failed resoundingly because it had too many doors. You might as well have tried to market a three-wheel Hayabusa.

Dodge fails at small ca... oh, wait, they don't HAVE any small cars, but they failed when they put too many doors on them. 15 year old boys don't need seventeen doors, handicap helper bars, geritol dispensers, and whatever else the race of aliens who visited Earth long enough to destroy your sporty compact car lineup decided they needed.

Have you noticed how literally every automaker on the entire planet except Dodge isn't violently mentally retarded when it comes to this market segment?

You can't create loyalty via direct experience with the youth crowd with a 75k supercar they can't afford to polish, let alone buy.

You create loyalty with good times in fast, stupid, fun cars that are more tire smoke and laughs than they are exotic car performance and unbeatable braking.

Therefore, I challenge you to the following:

Steal a march on the ever-more-sissy other brands of cars by re-introducing the rear-wheel-drive sport compact car!!!

Young bucks will be putting stupidly wide tires on the rear to handle it's smokin' 198 horsepower in short order.

Don't give me the hooey that "OMG le it is le too oxponseeve to puttez-nous les driven rair wheels on ze carz!"

MAKE COMPACT CARS FUN AGAIN!

Disconnect the engine from the driven wheels. How much do driveshafts cost? twenty bucks?

You can do it, Dodge!

PS you can hire me to help guide this next generation of automotive designers who have evidently never even had a date with a human being into making cars that bring people into your brand and keep them there for life.

Ad hominem attacks earn you being ignored.

I repeat: Dodge, if you want to create future brand loyalty, ignore Greta Thunberg and the other members of the Cult of Doom, and bring back the Arrow, complete with rear wheel drive and 2.0 doors. None of the Big Three had a cooler car of that type in that era. The Chevette? Garbage. The Maverick? Hideous. Only the Arrow nailed it.

The Challenger rescued Dodge's brand identity, and it has 2 doors and rear wheel drive. Cars that excite young guys generally have rear wheel drive. Why not give them a new place to start that doesn't have Sissy Wheel Drive, as a great starting point?

BTW, make the rear wheel openings big enough for larger-than-normal rear tires.

I know you may save 0.001mpg by having "I plan on never touching another human being in a romantic fashion" wheel drive, but big rigs are getting 6mpg, fully loaded with 80,000 pounds, and lo and behold they have TWO rear axles to drive.

If you don't let the bean counters completely take over the company, you can do something that evidently has escaped the Formerly Big Other Two US automakers: creating cachet and brand loyalty with future buyers by wooing them where they are, now, financially, with cars that are, well, more masculine just by the very virtue of having rear wheel drive.

If it offends you, the idea that cars should be more masculine, then you are part of the problem. Note the sales of the Challengers in general, and the Hellcats in particular, to observe how tragically, woefully, stupidly, wrong you are.

Make cars where the first reaction of whoever sees someone driving one is not to think that whoever drives it has never been within six feet of any testosterone.

Oh, and make the engine longitudinal, whether it be I-4, V6, or whatever, with the transmission being BEHIND it and the rear suspension independent, or clone the really-well-executed "king of controllable-drop-throttle-oversteer" first-generation RX7. if you must go with a solid rear axle, which would make it have GREAT potential for drag racing, and would make it a great candidate for Pro Streeters, though that level of masculinity in a car is not so common these days.

Being raised wherever you were raised, O automotive career people, you may not have ever witnessed a burnout, a drift, or a power slide. However, enjoying these things is intrinsic to normal males' psyches. People who disagree with this are either not normal, or not male, or neither.

Make Macho First Cars Available Again! The first-gen Supra was basically a mini-Cuda. It had rear wheel drive, as do all subsequent Supras. The Z cars. RX's, Spitfires, TR's, The Stratos, even the Renault Cinq Turbo 2.

Don't spend your life with your face crushed against the bark of a tree by virtue of someone from the Eradicate Phun in America having duct-taped your head tightly to the tree, so you not only can't see the forest, you can't see anything but the new god of the fatherless: fuel mileage/elimination of petroleum when the VAAAAASST majority of the world's air polution comes from shipping and industry in other countries.

Pull back from making out with the bark of the nearest Gretawood tree and notice that it is not only not the only tree on Earth, it is not the only TYPE of tree in a vast forest.

Let everyone else make forgettable front-wheel-drive boxes. Make cars that young guys and gals will step over the wrong-wheel-drive crud to get to.

Just make sure it has enough power to spin the rear tires, and definitely make a posi rear end an easily-attainable option (You know, for safety...)

Bring Arrow Back Again!

PS try to make the engine bay and structure so, you know, if for some reason someone wanted to drop a V6 or a Hemi in it, they would have the room to do so.

Then, run it in almost unmodified form, in racing, maybe even Pro Stock. Revive the dreams of those of us who always planned to get around to doing a Dodge Pro Street car, but didn't have the money to re-engineer the entire automobile to turn a wrong-wheel-drive into a rear-wheel-drive, but maybe we did have enough money to get a Hemi from a truck in the junkyard and maybe get a spare axle from something...
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
The Dart failed in my opinion because it didn't have enough hp, not too many doors. Example being the 2003-2005 Neon SRT.
Cars with less horsepower and half the number of doors are being made by the millions, tho, to this day. Mopar is hiring people to hold blackout curtains in front of its eyes if they are failing to observe this hyper-evident fact.

If they made a sexy two-door version of the SRT/4, they would have sold a lot more of them.

it's a pity that the largely-Dodge-designed World Engine just didn't find a more worthy home than the box-of-ugliness Nitro and whatever the other forgettable hideous beast was from that era that some evidently traitorous designers hairball-hack-coughed up on the public.

They are going to have to make an investment in the future to create brand loyalty. I don't know if whoever owns the company this week has even ever seen the words "brand" and "loyalty" in the same paragraph together, but Mopar people are actually different than others. We have a better brand to which to be loyal. Hopefully they will not work hard to destroy that in the name of whatever the latest insanity posing as Heroic Social Justice of Heroicness is.

PS WHY DIDN'T THEY PUT A V8 IN THE PROWLER? A MODERN VERSION OF THE '32 HIGHBOY without room for a V8 was a crime against carkind.

While I'm at it, Dodge, bring back the Prowler, but this time with a Hemi option. Watch the sales roll in. Watch the attention you steal from Ford and Chevy, who seem to be competing with the whole Asian market to see who can make the most completely anonymous and forgettable cars.

Making the Prowler sans V8 was one of the dumbest moves of all time. "Little" John Buttera himself would have bought one if you made it with a Hemi. Maybe Chris Buttera can help you.

Also, make a Viper again, but this time with a 72 degree V10. Give it a proper exotic car howl, though in baritone instead of soprano, so it sounds like a WWII fighter plane.
Heck, give it a 700 cubic inch V12 that turns 2000RPM. Then watch "helplessly" as crazy Envrionmentally Insensitive Ruffians violete the EPA guidelines and add a cam, valve springs, and other modifications to bring the RPM up to 7000...

A Prowler without room for a V8 is like a Jeep with only one-wheel-drive.
 

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Might be time to step away from the coffee this morning?

The Dart failed because it is a POS. I bought my daughter one to hopefully create some of that brand loyalty you talk about. All I’ll say is it’s a damn good thing I got a Max Care warranty at the same time. Plus, it rides like crap and the mileage isn’t anywhere near what other cars in its segment get.

I could go on, but the issues with the car have ZERO to do with the number of doors it has ...
 

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The problem isn't coffee, it's what's being poured into the coffee. Where are these millions of two door cars that are being sold today? Besides the exotic/sports cars and the Wrangler no one even makes one. When the overall length of 1971 Dart was the same as the overall length of a 2020 Charger the two-door was functional. Two doors in a modern compact car is useless. I'm 6'-2" and the driver's seat in my Challenger is against the back seat. The vast majority of young people today don't even want to buy a car, let alone "hop it up", they'd much rather talk about which phone they have. Get a new calendar, it's a different world. But go ahead and copy and paste your original post again if it makes you feel better.
 

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I know this is all matter of opinion, but an example of the number of doors not really being a deal breaker, look at the Charger. It seems to sell pretty well.
 

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PS WHY DIDN'T THEY PUT A V8 IN THE PROWLER? A MODERN VERSION OF THE '32 HIGHBOY without room for a V8 was a crime against carkind.
Exactly! Absolutely pointless. And the Crossfire also.

FCA (or whoever they are now) has had as still has a perfect first step, and they are kinda moving in that direction, sort of. They are considering the 6.4 Jeep Wrangler, but why not make a lowered, low price, 2wd street version? Take off the hard top and you have a roadster. But it MUST BE offered with a M6!!!!

BTW: What kind of coffee is that? Some of that Turkish stiff? I want some!
 

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The success of the Challenger and it's offering of models was predicated on a marketing boom for nostalgia that Chrysler noticed with the resurgence of the VW Beetle, followed by the success of the retro-designed Mustang. Chrysler gambled on a perfect storm of Boomer nostalgia with a core demographic of middle-aged men entering retirement age as empty nester's with a lot of fluid capital earned from years of fattened pension plans, smart and speculative investing, and maturing market funds.

Of the Big Three, only Chrysler was intuitive enough to realize that the core demographic was going to remain the same and if they were going to change anything, they would follow the design cues of the upgrades implemented to the redesign of the Challenger in 1971 (hence the grill and taillight treatments of the 2015+ models). And hell yeah, that included loads of power that the original late 60's early 70's Challengers couldn't touch.

I like your idea, but the passion for cars and performance building may have been a generational phenomena that followed WWII aviation vets and other returning military speed freaks home in 1945 and was passed on from the greatest generation to the boomers, lasting another 30 years. I don't think millennials are as impressed with HP as they are with mAh, or want to learn how to row gears when cars are now virtually self-driving, or learn how to parallel park when modern cars can do it on a first attempt. Dog approved, eco-friendly, small carbon footprint are the hallmarks of the car environment today, not the muscle car era. I can almost hear a millennial now, answering me (with a bored tone), OK boomer...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I know this is all matter of opinion, but an example of the number of doors not really being a deal breaker, look at the Charger. It seems to sell pretty well.
However, lets us not ignore the millions and millions of 2-door cars sold in the market segment Dodge ruled, in performance terms, with its Neon ACR 2-door, then somehow thought adding two more doors would be SPECTACULAR for sales.

No Honda of that era could hold a candle to the SRT/4, but the four door-only option killed it. Honda very, very aggressively pursued the youth market and it worked. They made sure import car magazines of the time sufficiently hyped their little, whiny four-bangers with far less power than the Neon. the laughable performance was not a barrier to their hype. Honda aficianados of the time, saddled with what, a 1.25" exhaust tract, would put "grapefruit shooter" exhaust cans on them, like that would somehow increase performance that the strand of spaghetti exhaust system was choking off. Meanwhile, the DOHC Neon came STOCK with a 2.25" exhaust system.

Dodge lost the hype war, not the performance war. They could have made their suspensions more sophisticated, also, and it would have been nice, for example, if anyone but five people in the janitorial department at Mopar knew the Neon ACR:
A) existed
B) had Koni adjustable shocks on all four corners.

Porsche sells a four-door car, also. Should THEY abandon their two-door sports cars?

How about two-door pickup trucks? Should Dodge abandon THAT market also, because four-doors sell?

A two-door car has a certain sexy, carefree cachet to it that a four-door of similar model just cannot touch. Why is it so hard for Mopar to grasp this? All they have to do is look around at the automotive market, and see. Would a Corvette be improved with four doors, maybe five seats, seven Big Gulp holders and a child seat between the two front seats?

They have refused to admit this massive detachment from market realities and strategic vision for decades, now.

The success of the two-door Charger does not somehow magically translate into "It is wrong and bad to have two doors."

They need to re-enter that market segment, give the young guys a place to start a life of modifications and fun that isn't a wimp-wheel-drive car, and completely blindside the competition.

Another thing many people who were raised by one or two mothers do not get: a rear-wheel burnout is cool, while a front-wheel burnout is not.

BTW, how many drift cars are made from resurrected old 240Z's, which were boring at best when new, but whose value skyrocketed when Honda joined the bandwagon and abandoned RWD?

A used turbo'd-up 240Z has more cachet than a whole trainload of Dodge "Darts."
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
passion for cars and performance building may have been a generational phenomena that followed WWII aviation vets
I can't agree with that. in the 90's, none of the seventeen-year-olds had been in WWII, and many had no fathers who were of that era, either. All you heard about in the '90's was VTEC, VTEC, VTEC, like having variable valve timing on a lawnmower suddenly made you into Michael Shumacher.

The passion was not dead. It just had fewer outlets, and the Big Three largely ignored it or were somehow convinced that masculinity was toxic and bad, so they wimped out and Honda stole an entire generation with their subtle and relentless press for more market share, and somehow erasing the FACT that on pavement, an RWD car is simply faster, given all other things being equal, than a FWD car.

F1 does not mandate rear-wheel drive, but, voila! all the cars that are the fastest around a race track do not have AWD, and it sure ain't front-wheel-drive.

Through a marketing onslaught, the FACT that RWD is just plain faster, more fun, and better for performance in general was erased from the public consciousness, but, again, looking at the FACTS can shake one out of the coma induced on purpose by bean-counters and insurance companies.

Yes, RWD has more potential for oversteer, but with modern electronics and ABS, it is far less of a danger than when FWD was foisted on the public en masse. Look at how controllable the Hellcats are with both traction and stability control.

A 2-door, sporty, low, fun little car that is backed up by a platform that leaves room for fun future additions and upgrades will help young guys get back into cars and get their faces un-stuck from their phones.

Also, not charging 30,000 dollars for it, and making really inexpensive strippers available that still have performance available.

Also, as Greta continues to shriek and blubber her way to prominence, foisted on us by a whole juggernaut evidently financed by China, who is poor in oil but rich in lithium, which is used in electric cars, it is good to say "nope" to the Climate Hype.

The way forward: Even the base model with 4-valve DOHC and maybe 1.6L, and good rev potential, ports that have plenty of room around them for porting. Some guys get their kicks at 8,000 RPM more than at 11PSI.

Then, upgrades to the same engine via block with greater bore size, not just more stroke, for up to 2.4L of displacement, plenty more revs, and ultimately a turbo option with appropriate status-symbol external accouterments.

Heck, make one with a well-engineered micro-diesel that is turbocharged and can ALSO be hopped up, as some people really like engines that have no throttle butterflies, and escape the whiny-voiced "but why don't you have a hybrid version?" crowd on their way to their latest parade/demonstration to protest against whatever is normal.

The Lawn Dart that Dodge produced (sales had a similar trajectory) had zero performance parts available, no one in the aftermarket supported it, and it was in a black hole of obscurity. There were no cool Lawn Darts. They had too many doors. Even 1995 Hondas TWO DOOR CARS THAT HAVE LESS THAN FOUR DOORS IN THE SENSE OF ONLY HAVING TWO still have a substantial aftermarket for them.

Mopar has to hit the ground running with the performance version offered from DAY ONE of the New Arrow. They can't make it a complete desecration of the old name like the Lawn Dart was. They have to have the aftermarket already primed with performance stuff. They have to make fun available.

In fact, just copy Honda in the 1990's. Make a Hellcat version with a tiny supercharger (not centrifugal) option in addition to a turbo option. Get the rotor pack from Eaton, not IHI. If you want to steal an entire generation, tie it into Mad Max and get the supercharger able to be engaged by choice, by a big, prominent PTO pull-button (maybe dash-mounted,) fed by a functional hood scoop, and offer it in matt black. Honda would most likely immediately launch a campaign to explain how important it is for everyone to sit down to pee, because penis ownership is insensitivity, AND subtly attack the car as being even more irresponsible than billions of farting bovines, because you KNOW Honda does not have the balls to produce a counter to it.

Make masculinity legal again! (I mean for cars and men.)

PS if you want to completely pull the pants down on the rest of the competitors in Europe, make it available there with a 1.6L turbo V6, an engine option that announces "F1" with a billboard, without explicitly stating it. It would be the marketing coup of the century!

Literally ZERO automakers in Europe are doing this. It can be the European version of the Dart Hellcat. Call it the Matra or something similar and style it with similar valve cover design to the old high-screaming Matra 11,000 RPM endurance racing engines of the Speed Merchants era.

In Europa, you can market it as a good performance starter car, and since whoever owns Mopar this week has no competing models, they won't be afraid of stepping on Enzo's (Ferrari for the performance-illiterate) toes or dancing on his grave.

Have a high-revving V6 sport model, AND the Porsche-challenging turbocharged V6 that would have the rest of Europe scratching their heads and asking, "Ach der lieber! Why didn't we think of that?"

Do it, Mopar. Make cars, not 2000 euro phones cool again!
 

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Your attachment to reality is becoming looser with each subsequent post. I'd say quit while you're ahead, but it may be too late for that now.
 

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Bottom line, people want air bags, all power options, all the newest tech..... this costs money. When minimum wage is 3 fold what it was 25 years ago, everything follows.
If your looking for dodge to bring back the charger 2.2 renamed, rwd, with a 392, for what, under $25k?...... thats insane. They would be bankrupt. Let the kids play with foxbody mustangs until they can pay to play.
the-wraith-1986-1.jpg
 
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It's only one example, and one car that didn't get sold, but I bought a '13 Golf R when somehow I became aware of their existence. There were only four white 2-doors left in the nation.

Bought one to carry me over until the more powerful '14 would come out. Well, it never did. And for '15 they only imported the 4-door version. No thanks, I had no need for that extra weight and diminished aesthetics.

While 2-door pickups are all but a thing of the past, thankfully the 2-door Ram 4500 will likely still be available when it's time to buy a replacement for the 3500.
 
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