Demon 170 wide spread engine issues?
Reaperhwk
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This could affect the market by at least a 20% decline.
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It's hard to judge things on a percentage at present... because if you go back to launch pricing, they've lost about 50% in the first year. Of course, those were wildly inflated. The median D170 new price at dealerships right now is in the 160-165k ballpark. That's down over $120k from this time last year. There's still dealers trying to sell for $250k+, but that's just a lot draw with an unrealistic price. The ones actually selling are in that $160ish ballpark... and I've personally seen about 5 dozen D170 listings price adjust down from $200k to that $160k figure this week... so dealers are in fact reducing the price and are seemingly getting some anxiety over this issue.
The reason why you can't assume a net percentage drop is because I don't think the fair market value on the D170 has been firmly established yet, due to how overpriced they were.
But yeah, as others have shown, there's dealers that still have 2 dozen D170s in back storage waiting on the prices to recover. OCMotivator did a vid on one non-Dodge dealer that has 20+ in their storage garage. I'm certain that this isn't unique. In SoCal, Miami, LV, and other halo car hotspots, there's probably 500 or more D170s squirreled away not listed for sale at dealerships across the country as they're too upside down to sell in the current market. They're hoping in the next 3-5 years that prices rebound so they don't end up eating a half million in losses.
If these engine problems persist and/or become validated systemic concerns, then all those delivery mile D170s squirreled away will be out of warranty by the time someone buys it. And yeah, that would greatly harm the selling price as nobody knows if it has a grenade ready to pop or not. Stellantis is already cracking down on replacement engines as they're running out of stock. So, in 5 years, simply going to the dealer for a replacement, even on your own dime, is not going to have guaranteed availability, and most certainly not timely.
The next year or so will determine how severe the engine issue is. If it turns out to be a substantial concern, then yeah, the value of a delivery mile D170 will almost certainly be considerably less than one that's been properly broken in, driven, and proven to NOT be one of these defective cars.
I don’t plan on selling my D170. I’d turn my D170 into a doghouse before I’d give it away that cheap.
Good luck getting any facts out of the self proclaimed insider influencer.
Why would any squirreled away delivery miles vehicle be out of warranty ever? Doesn't the warranty start when put into service? They're still new, never registered no?
My thoughts, the DODGE D170 is a
fricken wicked … ask for forgiveness after the fact-not permission before hand …don’t hate the player-hate the game, type of bad ass muscle car that was ever produced … period!
Would I have considered paying a non greedy ADM on one prior to the publicized issues owners are having …. yes.
Would I consider paying any kind of ADM (or even buying one now) after more and more issues are being documented and witnessed … no way!
Just to many issues have been documented and publicized for any further more of my consideration of one to purchase.
For only 3300 of them ever being manufactured … I can’t comprehend even why at minimal, several D170 owners had issues that needed new motors. WTF
I believe the D170 was rushed to the market and released for sale with still unknown developmental challenges that were not addressed.
Was there assembly line issues, quality control issues, or even workers knowing the end was coming and didn’t GAF issues, ect … 🤷‍♂️
Another thought, was there not driving and testing done using the vehicle in the real word before releasing it to the public for sale …. if so, there was no issues the test vehicles were having (really)?
I could keep going on why the D170 is not a consideration for me BUT sincerely hope the owners out there that have one of them bad azz biatch D170’s, the best of luck that they have no issues of what we all have been informed and aware of.
DODGE … why so many D170 fails?
fricken wicked … ask for forgiveness after the fact-not permission before hand …don’t hate the player-hate the game, type of bad ass muscle car that was ever produced … period!
Would I have considered paying a non greedy ADM on one prior to the publicized issues owners are having …. yes.
Would I consider paying any kind of ADM (or even buying one now) after more and more issues are being documented and witnessed … no way!
Just to many issues have been documented and publicized for any further more of my consideration of one to purchase.
For only 3300 of them ever being manufactured … I can’t comprehend even why at minimal, several D170 owners had issues that needed new motors. WTF
I believe the D170 was rushed to the market and released for sale with still unknown developmental challenges that were not addressed.
Was there assembly line issues, quality control issues, or even workers knowing the end was coming and didn’t GAF issues, ect … 🤷‍♂️
Another thought, was there not driving and testing done using the vehicle in the real word before releasing it to the public for sale …. if so, there was no issues the test vehicles were having (really)?
I could keep going on why the D170 is not a consideration for me BUT sincerely hope the owners out there that have one of them bad azz biatch D170’s, the best of luck that they have no issues of what we all have been informed and aware of.
DODGE … why so many D170 fails?
I have 2300 miles on mine, zero issues.
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292 Posts
There is no strong evidence to support a bad batch of Demon 170's that I have read about to date, but rather, only speculation generated, in part, by a hand full of Demon 170 YouTubers. In my opinion, a hand full of of YouTube Demon 170 "click baiters" have demostrated time and time again that they are not a reliable source of credible information when it comes to the reliablity of the Demon 170. This YouTube post is a good example, although there are many. Evidence is only credible if it can be viewed in total and can otherwise be verified. Posting only snippits of information that would not see the light of day in a courtroom is not credible evidence, and, thus is not reliable. And when additional information was requested to back up this story, it was not provided to the best of my knowledge. If you cannot back up your claims with credible evidence you stories become nothing more than speculation. We even have a YouTuber's who has told his viewers 500 miles is sufficient to break in a Demon 170 engine, even though the Demon 170 manual clear states 1,500 miles is required or you risk engine damage. And what happened to this guy's Demon 170 engine? Should have been no big surprise - it failed. So, I strongly recommend folks find credible sources of information about the Demon 170's reliablity before jumping to any conclusions about it, and if a channel can't post clear and compelling evidence in a 15 to 30 minute video its not a very credible source of information in my opinion. Nor is a channel credible in my opinion that ignores the written break-in procedures contained in the Demon 170 manual telling its viewers 500 miles is sufficient for engine break-in claiming some unnamed person at Stallantis said so. Unnamed, really? Manual can be ignored when it comes to engine break-in millage, really? Then we have other Demon 170 YouTubers telling us how Demon 170 prices are falling like rocks from the sky, but completely ignore other recent public sales which demostrate the opposite. Sorry, these types of unsubstantiated and/or half truth YouTube posts have virtually zero crediblity in my book, and, further, some have done a real dis-service to the Dodge community.
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I have 2,500 miles on mine and it runs perfectly. I read the manual and followed it, breaking in my Demon 170 engine the full 1,500 miles before dragging it.
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292 Posts
How many of these failed engines were broken in per the manual before being raced? When you dont follow the break in procedure you should not be surprised when your engine fails like RacerX's did.
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292 Posts
THe 2018's had stickers around 85k-90k. Plus, we are in one of the worst car markets that we have ever seen. However, when interest rates drop and the economy eventually turns around there is no reason to think the collector car market won'trespond like it has through-out history. That's not speculation, that is what history has taught us all. Also, a 2018 Demon with 20-30k miles is not nearly as collectible as those with 2k or less. Regardless, I love driving and racing my Demon 170 and have no desire to sell it. Best Challenger ever built in my opinion.
How many of these engines were run hard with 93 octane or other non ethanol fuels (high octane race gas), or super double top secret fuel blends above E85? Can you imagine if Dodge released a Nitrous car. People would be using CO2 & Helium because it was available at the local store.…. and blame Dodge.
PSA please use the flex fuel tuning engineered in these cars.
PSA please use the flex fuel tuning engineered in these cars.
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817 Posts
They did do testing before they released the car and it was well documented that they were blowing up engines in the process. Supposedly they had that ironed out.
And transmissions, differentials, drive shafts. Lot’s of destruction developing these cars.
So just what is the mental hang up of not using E85 in these cars? Perhaps one of the other 479 last call edition Challengers would have been a better choice than a flex fuel drag car.
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292 Posts
Glad to hear Speedy. I am at 2,500 miles and ran mine Friday night in the 9s again. All runs great. The car is simply amazing on the road and the track and is has exceeded my expectations. I firmly believe after reviewing the stories out there over the past year or so that the people primarily experiencing engine failures are those who did not break them in per the Dodge manual. Time and time again when I ask the question (and actually get a response) you learn they put about 500 miles or so on their Demon 170 before racing it mistakenly believing that is the proper standard - its not. And low and behold these same folks have an engine failure just like Dodge warns can happen in the manual if you dont follow thier break-in instructions including the 1,500 mile standard before tracking . So whether the lack of proper break-in is the problem or not the public record so far certainly points clearly in that direction. And, regardless, you cannot fairly attack the reliablity of a car when you don't follow the engine manufacturer's break-in instructions. Regarding this missing bearing story, I have seen an engine builder or two post that its almost impossible for an engine to run with a missing main bearing, and my Dodge mechanic, who works at a Dodge Power Broker location, claims the such an engine would start knocking almost immediately off the assembly line if it would start at all. So when I have asked for a copy of the entire work invoice behind the story you have posted (excluding personal information of course) nobody is willing to provide it. Thats fine, of course, but if you are not going to back up your story with credible evidence that should be readily available I am not going to give the story much if any credilibity - and neither would a judge in a courtroom by the way. And, I have seen this time and time again with some YouTubers who make bold claims attacking the relialbity of the Demon 170 but provide little to no verifiable evidence to support thier claims in many instances. Why not? Its easy to upload such work orders, right? And, if you can post a 15-30 minutes video calling into question the Demon 170 you can certainly upload supporting documents that take a minute or so, right? Unfortunately, I think certain YouTubers have over the past year engaged in some serious and reckless speculation about the reliablity of the Demon 170, and, as a result, have unfairly tarnished its name and its value. I say "unfair" because of the lack of credible evidence that is almost always absent or highly lacking in completeness. Other you YouTubers scream out that Demon 170 prices are nose diving but ignore recent public sales that clearly indiate otherwise, even when its provided to them in the comment section. To add insult to injury it appars some YouTubers then delete that data (which YouTube permits by the way) to hide those competing sales from their viewers. So, pesonally, I would not be concerned about storing one as these Demon 170s as collector car for a single moment. However, I might change my mind if sombody posted credible evidence of repeated engine failures in Demon 170 AFTER they were first broken-in the full 1,500 miles. You and I both broke our cars in the full 1,500 miles and so far neither you or I have had any type of engine failure problems, and I am seeing that same result on Facebook with other Demon 170 owners as well. Time will tell, but enjoy your Demon 170 my friend. I have very much enjoyed wathing your YouTube channel, and I hope to see you on the track some day!
I have been reading your posts on this subject, and it seems as if every last post focuses on break-in procedure being the sole culprit. While your theory may be valid, how do we explain missing bearings on some of these? That’s pretty hard to get around. Were there simply a few bad ones? Or are you thinking maybe there really were no missing bearings? Or maybe improper break in destroyed the bearing altogether? Regardless of break in procedure, if there are indeed simply missing bearings at the time of assembly on some of these, that’s pretty bad. The good news is if that’s true then it is not a design flaw, but an assembly issue.
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As I have posted here before what I think is really wrong is you got some YT/Influencers had cars on order close or at MSRP and did nothing but talk the car up and praise it prior to delivery knowing good and damn well they were going to sell it for a big pay day. Then after they sold, cashed in and made bank they bashed the car with some (not all) fake news motor failures and also bashed the prices being in the tank due to the engine issues which in turn only hurts the very same people they sold their cars too. Now if that aint a DICK move then I dont know what is. A pure dick move!
As far as pricing goes we are in a down turn in the economy for luxury items of all kinds despite what Joe and the new born princess says so a lot of things are a little soft right now. But dont take my word for it, look at the current auction prices. You ad buyer fee's, tax, reg, and shipping and the cars are currently bringing 150K-180K depending on options, ect. Not too bad in this super soft ecomony right now. When things get back to some what normal in the next couple of years I suspect these cars will land between 180-200K just how the OG did a few years back. But who really give a FF? I bought mine to drive and enjoy. Priceless!
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