Diablosport suspension controller

Finface said:

Rayzazoo,

Thanks for the post and for digging into the numbers.

This sounds like we're getting somewhere - listing distinctions in OEM settings for starters.

Do the DSC/DiabloSport controllers similarly ramp up base starting firmness for the three selectable modes? Is that all it does, or is there additional tuning for anticipated standing start launches and braking forces?

One consistent observation is that when braking the controller senses weight transfer towards the front and firms up the front shocks. That has to be a matter of enabling the controller to sense longitudinal G forces and if it can do that then programming it to do the opposite - allow more rear shock compression and perhaps more front shock extension too - during hard launches or rolling launches - would be a great way to get more wheel downforce on the rear wheels to help avoid spinning the tires.

For initially turning, is there a customized for the Challenger's weight, springs and shocks (predicted body roll), change in individual wheel shock firmness?

It sounds like, since you used Track as your straight ahead example, that the DSC controller in Track mode would be in firmest base ride 100mA in all four corners (like OEM), then sense a bump in one wheel so quickly it could go into OEM Street mode's 400mA softer ride response to absorb the bump and keep the wheel in ground contact, then quickly go back into 100mA in all four corners past the bump. Is this correct? If so, this is a big improvement over OEM Track mode.

But, if the above IS true for Track, and perhaps Sport mode as well with its base 200mA setting, why would anyone ever want to drive in anything other than Track suspension mode? You are essentially saying the controller can sense bumps so well that it will automatically briefly shift into softer ride modes for those wheels affected by road imperfections? If that is true wouldn't the ride over suddenly bumpy roads simply feel like Street?

It also sounds like, again using Track for your turning example, that the DSC/DiabloSport controller in Track mode would be in firmest base ride 100mA in all four corners, then as the turn is entered sense a difference in G forces between the inner and outer wheels (primarily more downforce on the outer wheels, less downforce on the inner wheels as the body weight rolls towards the outside of the turn) and go into Street mode settings of 400mA for the inner wheels, then go back into 100mA in all four corners as the car straightens out. Is this correct? If so, is the controller's switching to the softer inner wheel shock setting allowing greater inner wheel shock extension, and perhaps doing it quicker, than the 100mA Track setting would allow for? If so, it would keep more inner wheel downforce (and tire rubber downforce) on the ground. More inner wheel friction on the ground in a turn would improve handling (and safety) - maybe by a lot.

What happens if you start out in Street going straight and hit a bump or depression in the road? Does the controller go even softer than 400mA? If not, what would be the benefit of ever being in other than Track? If indeed Track handles sudden bumps like the two lesser firmness modes? There would seem to be no advantage, or reason, to not being in Track.

What happens if you start out in Street and start a turn? Does the controller change the outer wheels to Track settings - to 100mA - while keeping Street's 400mA on the inner wheels? If so that would be pretty great - better handling avoiding Uncle Jed's refrigerator or just carving turns always equals better safety - and it is more fun. But again, why ever select Street or Sport suspension mode if all the above is actually true? Or even mostly true?

I hope it is true. Replacing the three OEM selectable suspension modes into one super can-handle-all-ride-conditions individual wheel sensing and shock response Track mode sounds fantastic to me. Base handling in turns like Track, straight ahead ride like Street, sensing longitudinal weight shifts for better friction starts and less front end droop stops. Sign me up.

If you, or anyone else on the forum, can answer these questions we'll really be getting somewhere in understanding how this works.

Best,

Finface

Click to expand...

motorheadmike said:

This video explains it all: Diablosport suspension controller

You will need to datalog the individual sensors to gauge where/when you want to make changes.

DSC likely dyno'd the shocks, made a preliminary baseline tune, and fine tuned the controller in a car. Tuning a car to individual driving styles is very subjective. This is a 90% solution for 99% of buyers out of the box.

At best folks can sharpen up the response times sooner or delay them for more weight transfer relative to the G's seen. Assuming they have the tools and knowledge to know how. But, most people who venture into tuning this will probably end up ruining things or seeing little return or end up claiming a false positive/placebo effect.

You are over thinking this and over complicating it and muddying the waters. This box takes a linear system and makes it parabolic.

Click to expand...

Finface said:

MotorHead Mike and Rayzazoo,

First off, I'm 99% sure I'm going to buy one of these controllers. But I haven't decided who from.

I should have watched the video in this post earlier - it's good, but again nothing I've seen offers the kind of Overview of the product I want with regard to our Challengers. I want Tom or someone from DSC to make a video or two where he unboxes the controller, installs it in the trunk, starts the car, then says, "I'm going to work so I'm selecting Street - and here is what it does in Street and why it's better than OEM Street. Then he drives on rough roads and comments about what the active suspension is doing the OEM suspension would not, does some hard stops, and quasi-hard launches, and makes some sharp turns. If you can do the "throw the car around" stuff on a road course that would be great. And he does the same for Sport and Track - IF there is a different response the controller will make dependent on those modes. I don't want to be overly critical of DSC or DiabloSport because I think you guys are engineering geniuses, but I find that some aftermarket vendors assume their potential clients are far more "in tune" (lol) with them than they are - and I think this is the case here.

Some things you (Mike from DSC) said in the video stand out and spoke to my questions.

Mike said “blending the two modes on the Viper - Touring and Sport”. Isn't this the gist of my question about a "Super Track" mode that senses and reacts so quickly (500 times/second accessing the OEM hardware is impressive!) it behaves like Street mode temporarily? It sounded like it - tuning to obtain the best blend of both worlds. For those of us who may want a true plug and play experience is there simply "The Map" that DSC or Diablo has optimized for Challengers - for the 90% who may not want to delve into the software? Or are there multiple preoptimized Maps? If there is one Map is it selectable on the UConnect screen, or always operable (like an overlay) to some degree in all three Challenger selectable suspension modes?

I poked around YouTube and caught a couple more DSC videos. There was a Porsche guy a year ago in Seattle who seemed to answer the above "best of both worlds, Super Track mode" question differently than it is blended and good to go. He compared his normal mode to his sport mode and said there was a perceivable difference. He said his normal mode was a softer ride with the controller installed, and said his sport mode was stiffer than normal like always, but it still smoothed out the road.

Mike, in talking about launch mode - you used “drag race mode” terminology. This also gets to the core of what I'm asking about in my previous posts and here. On our Dodge Challenger Hellcats we don't have a Drag Race selectable suspension mode like the Demon has on its UConnect. Street, Sport and Track is what we have - and I understand now have the three passive firmness settings. In your video showing longitudinal tuning when you set drag strip launch parameters...when would they "activate"? In one, some, or all our modes? I mentioned separating the controller's maps (if there is more than one) to marry up with our non-Demon, non-Super Sport Challenger selectable UConnect terminology because I think that would a better way to think about all of this.

In the video at the vendor show Tom explained a lot. He mentioned a Gforce signature prewritten by DSC, talked about brake pressure sensing faster than Gforce sensing, offsetting one kind of sensing against another when conflicting inputs are sensed, said active all the time, warned people can go down wrong path manually and to avoid it DSC provides "a very good base map". So I'm getting there, but you can really help if you answer my questions in this post. I liked the concept of "tune for the driver - driver reactions - "which trigger a mixed set of commands in the prewritten algorithm". I liked can tune for track and different car setups. I liked 99% of the time you see an improvement in lap times just swapping OEM for DSC controllers. A real beauty of a selling point is your controller takes a less than optimally set up car and makes them a lot better. And the concept of it automatically adjusting for rain, and getting offline on a road course.

Electronic bump stop! Can tune the shock to stop compressing to avoid rubbing with bigger diameter tires? Can you do this without changing the other functionality features of the controller?

Click to expand...

Finface said:

MotorHead Mike and Rayzazoo,

First off, I'm 99% sure I'm going to buy one of these controllers. But I haven't decided who from.

I should have watched the video in this post earlier - it's good, but again nothing I've seen offers the kind of Overview of the product I want with regard to our Challengers. I want Tom or someone from DSC to make a video or two where he unboxes the controller, installs it in the trunk, starts the car, then says, "I'm going to work so I'm selecting Street - and here is what it does in Street and why it's better than OEM Street. Then he drives on rough roads and comments about what the active suspension is doing the OEM suspension would not, does some hard stops, and quasi-hard launches, and makes some sharp turns. If you can do the "throw the car around" stuff on a road course that would be great. And he does the same for Sport and Track - IF there is a different response the controller will make dependent on those modes. I don't want to be overly critical of DSC or DiabloSport because I think you guys are engineering geniuses, but I find that some aftermarket vendors assume their potential clients are far more "in tune" (lol) with them than they are - and I think this is the case here.

Some things you (Mike from DSC) said in the video stand out and spoke to my questions.

Mike said “blending the two modes on the Viper - Touring and Sport”. Isn't this the gist of my question about a "Super Track" mode that senses and reacts so quickly (500 times/second accessing the OEM hardware is impressive!) it behaves like Street mode temporarily? It sounded like it - tuning to obtain the best blend of both worlds. For those of us who may want a true plug and play experience is there simply "The Map" that DSC or Diablo has optimized for Challengers - for the 90% who may not want to delve into the software? Or are there multiple preoptimized Maps? If there is one Map is it selectable on the UConnect screen, or always operable (like an overlay) to some degree in all three Challenger selectable suspension modes?

I poked around YouTube and caught a couple more DSC videos. There was a Porsche guy a year ago in Seattle who seemed to answer the above "best of both worlds, Super Track mode" question differently than it is blended and good to go. He compared his normal mode to his sport mode and said there was a perceivable difference. He said his normal mode was a softer ride with the controller installed, and said his sport mode was stiffer than normal like always, but it still smoothed out the road.

Mike, in talking about launch mode - you used “drag race mode” terminology. This also gets to the core of what I'm asking about in my previous posts and here. On our Dodge Challenger Hellcats we don't have a Drag Race selectable suspension mode like the Demon has on its UConnect. Street, Sport and Track is what we have - and I understand now have the three passive firmness settings. In your video showing longitudinal tuning when you set drag strip launch parameters...when would they "activate"? In one, some, or all our modes? I mentioned separating the controller's maps (if there is more than one) to marry up with our non-Demon, non-Super Sport Challenger selectable UConnect terminology because I think that would a better way to think about all of this.

In the video at the vendor show Tom explained a lot. He mentioned a Gforce signature prewritten by DSC, talked about brake pressure sensing faster than Gforce sensing, offsetting one kind of sensing against another when conflicting inputs are sensed, said active all the time, warned people can go down wrong path manually and to avoid it DSC provides "a very good base map". So I'm getting there, but you can really help if you answer my questions in this post. I liked the concept of "tune for the driver - driver reactions - "which trigger a mixed set of commands in the prewritten algorithm". I liked can tune for track and different car setups. I liked 99% of the time you see an improvement in lap times just swapping OEM for DSC controllers. A real beauty of a selling point is your controller takes a less than optimally set up car and makes them a lot better. And the concept of it automatically adjusting for rain, and getting offline on a road course.

Electronic bump stop! Can tune the shock to stop compressing to avoid rubbing with bigger diameter tires? Can you do this without changing the other functionality features of the controller?

Click to expand...

Finface said:

Rayzazoo,

Thanks for the post and for digging into the numbers.

This sounds like we're getting somewhere - listing distinctions in OEM settings for starters.

Do the DSC/DiabloSport controllers similarly ramp up base starting firmness for the three selectable modes? Is that all it does, or is there additional tuning for anticipated standing start launches and braking forces?

One consistent observation is that when braking the controller senses weight transfer towards the front and firms up the front shocks. That has to be a matter of enabling the controller to sense longitudinal G forces and if it can do that then programming it to do the opposite - allow more rear shock compression and perhaps more front shock extension too - during hard launches or rolling launches - would be a great way to get more wheel downforce on the rear wheels to help avoid spinning the tires.

For initially turning, is there a customized for the Challenger's weight, springs and shocks (predicted body roll), change in individual wheel shock firmness?

It sounds like, since you used Track as your straight ahead example, that the DSC controller in Track mode would be in firmest base ride 100mA in all four corners (like OEM), then sense a bump in one wheel so quickly it could go into OEM Street mode's 400mA softer ride response to absorb the bump and keep the wheel in ground contact, then quickly go back into 100mA in all four corners past the bump. Is this correct? If so, this is a big improvement over OEM Track mode.

But, if the above IS true for Track, and perhaps Sport mode as well with its base 200mA setting, why would anyone ever want to drive in anything other than Track suspension mode? You are essentially saying the controller can sense bumps so well that it will automatically briefly shift into softer ride modes for those wheels affected by road imperfections? If that is true wouldn't the ride over suddenly bumpy roads simply feel like Street?

It also sounds like, again using Track for your turning example, that the DSC/DiabloSport controller in Track mode would be in firmest base ride 100mA in all four corners, then as the turn is entered sense a difference in G forces between the inner and outer wheels (primarily more downforce on the outer wheels, less downforce on the inner wheels as the body weight rolls towards the outside of the turn) and go into Street mode settings of 400mA for the inner wheels, then go back into 100mA in all four corners as the car straightens out. Is this correct? If so, is the controller's switching to the softer inner wheel shock setting allowing greater inner wheel shock extension, and perhaps doing it quicker, than the 100mA Track setting would allow for? If so, it would keep more inner wheel downforce (and tire rubber downforce) on the ground. More inner wheel friction on the ground in a turn would improve handling (and safety) - maybe by a lot.

What happens if you start out in Street going straight and hit a bump or depression in the road? Does the controller go even softer than 400mA? If not, what would be the benefit of ever being in other than Track? If indeed Track handles sudden bumps like the two lesser firmness modes? There would seem to be no advantage, or reason, to not being in Track.

What happens if you start out in Street and start a turn? Does the controller change the outer wheels to Track settings - to 100mA - while keeping Street's 400mA on the inner wheels? If so that would be pretty great - better handling avoiding Uncle Jed's refrigerator or just carving turns always equals better safety - and it is more fun. But again, why ever select Street or Sport suspension mode if all the above is actually true? Or even mostly true?

I hope it is true. Replacing the three OEM selectable suspension modes into one super can-handle-all-ride-conditions individual wheel sensing and shock response Track mode sounds fantastic to me. Base handling in turns like Track, straight ahead ride like Street, sensing longitudinal weight shifts for better friction starts and less front end droop stops. Sign me up.

If you, or anyone else on the forum, can answer these questions we'll really be getting somewhere in understanding how this works.

Best,

Finface

Click to expand...

motorheadmike said:

Ever get that impression that someone will never be satisfied?

Click to expand...

Finface said:

What happens if you start out in Street going straight and hit a bump or depression in the road? Does the controller go even softer than 400mA? If not, what would be the benefit of ever being in other than Track? If indeed Track handles sudden bumps like the two lesser firmness modes? There would seem to be no advantage, or reason, to not being in Track.

What happens if you start out in Street and start a turn? Does the controller change the outer wheels to Track settings - to 100mA - while keeping Street's 400mA on the inner wheels? If so that would be pretty great - better handling avoiding Uncle Jed's refrigerator or just carving turns always equals better safety - and it is more fun. But again, why ever select Street or Sport suspension mode if all the above is actually true? Or even mostly true?

I hope it is true. Replacing the three OEM selectable suspension modes into one super can-handle-all-ride-conditions individual wheel sensing and shock response Track mode sounds fantastic to me. Base handling in turns like Track, straight ahead ride like Street, sensing longitudinal weight shifts for better friction starts and less front end droop stops. Sign me up.

If you, or anyone else on the forum, can answer these questions we'll really be getting somewhere in understanding how this works.

Best,

Finface

Click to expand...

MKL_DS said:

All the magic is in the controller programming.
Dodge does a lazy job of programming the Mag ride controller.
This new controller use the functionality of the shocks much better, takes advantage of their ability to go from firm to soft in an instant and recalibrates all modes.
When launching the car, it will make the shocks act as close to a 50/50 rear, 90/10 front that you can get. Then when you dive into the return road at the end of the track it will firm up the shocks for reduced body roll and improved cornering.

For more info, read some reviews of the DSC controller from GTR and Corvette and Mustang owners who have used them. I have yet to find anyone that regretted the purchase.
FWIW, GM does a MUCH better job of programming their magride systems, and when you see how much the Vette/Camaro guys rave about what the new controler does it should make you wonder how much better your set up can actually be.

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Smitman said:

What is your refund policy if your are not happy with the product?

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rayzazoo said:

Return Policy - DiabloSport

NEW UNUSED PRODUCT RETURNS: Your complete satisfaction is our priority. If an item purchased from Diablosport.com does not meet your expectations, you may return the new, unused part within 90 days from the purchase date for a refund or exchange. The product must be in the original...

www.diablosport.com

.

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motorheadmike said:

Is this going to kill me?

View attachment 572885

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motorheadmike said:

Is this going to kill me?

View attachment 572885

Click to expand...

motorheadmike said:

Is this going to kill me?

View attachment 572885

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