[BSouders80]

I'm considering upgrading to run E85 on my 16 HC Challenger. Currently, I'm running 1100cc DW Injectors.

My questions: Do I need to go with a bigger injector?
This setup would be lower and upper pullies with aggressive tune. I'd like to be tuned to right around 950 whp.
I know that getting north of 1000 will require the bigger injectors, but that's down the road a way.

My fuel pump - What is the best setup to go with? Future goals is north of 1000 whp.
I'd rather invest now in the fuel system and not have to go down that road in the future.

Future goals also include stroking to 426 + whipple, but that will come in time.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

 

[HellcatMatt]

Ultimately, injectors should be determined by your tuner based on your setup.

However, I'm running a 426 with a KB on 19psi. Conservative tuned at 950whp. ID1300s, "Gasohol" twin pumps with a KB BAP and I'm starting to run out of fuel pump. Injector duty cycle is in the lower 80's. I personally would guess the 1100's might be a bit light if you're going aggressive on pullies.

 

[16GoManGoHC]

1000’s won’t keep up Do your intentions of an upper and the lower bully. You’re going to need 1300s at the very least. I make about 960 wheel right now and I and I run ID 1300s and in cold air at 84 psi fuel pressure I’m in the 75-80% duty cycle range already.

 

[BSouders80]

Thanks Guys. I called DW and asked them if they have injectors larger than the 1100cc. They do. 1500cc and 2200cc. The 1500cc are $1589 and the 2200cc are $1569.

My tuner likes the DW injectors. Question - If I did order the 2200 cc, which should cover any application that I can afford, can they be tuned for good street drive ability? Idle issues?

 

[16GoManGoHC]

The 2200’s are probably too big for what your doing, the 1500’s will take you far.

 

[BSouders80]

Injectors are for sure a go bigger. How about the fuel pump. Lots of options out there. In reading what I have found, I believe I'd like to go with the Fore tripple pump setup. Any suggestions on which setup to go with? Something that will handle up to 1200 whp range

 

[BSouders80]

Good morning all. Any input on fuel pump setup? double Fore pump vs triple pump...... Return vs Return less system??

 

[BSouders80]

So if I went with the Fore drop in dual pump setup, it's rated for up to 950 whp.

HHP Racing Plug & Play Dual Pump Walbro 525LPH Returnless Fuel System for 15-Current Challenger & Charger SRT Hellcat - HHP.HC.FUEL

HHP Racing Plug & Play Dual Pump Walbro 525LPH Returnless Fuel System for 15-Current Challenger & Charger SRT Hellcat - HHP.HC.FUEL

highhorseperformance.com

Could a person add a boost a pump to get more out of this setup down the road if more fuel is needed?

 

[16GoManGoHC]

Injectors are for sure a go bigger. How about the fuel pump. Lots of options out there. In reading what I have found, I believe I'd like to go with the Fore tripple pump setup. Any suggestions on which setup to go with? Something that will handle up to 1200 whp range

Once you start getting over 1000 wheel the stock 1/2” fuel line from the tank to the rails starts to become the issue, even with triple pumps. You can get the fuel pressure up to 95-100 psi which will help but 1200 wheel is going to take a bigger fuel line from the tank, then use the stock fuel line as the return line. I have dual 285 pumps and at 84 psi fuel rail pressure 960 wheel on true 85% ethanol fuel the pumps start to fall behind and fuel pressure starts dipping, especially as ambient gets colder. And I have ported fuel lines and rails. I have a dual 295 Steve White set up that I’ll be be going to this fall when things start cooling off. I run ID1300X2 injectors which flow almost 1400cc, ID under states their injector flow rates, FIC over states theirs, I don’t know about DW. Getting to 1000 wheel takes allot, getting to 1200 wheel on 376 cubes will take a built engine and some spray or 30 or do psi of boost. 1000 wheel on the street is a bunch, getting it to the ground starts to become a real trick after that point.

 

[BSouders80]

Mucho gracias. @16GoManGoHC

 

[BSouders80]

I went with L2 Fore Triple pump return system and DW 2200cc injectors. My tuner said those will idle fine and would have enough capacity for anything that I will ever want to do.

My plan - Hot tune with E85 for street driving. I do not daily drive the car. It sees maybe 100 miles a week.
2nd tune: Very aggressive race tune using E112

Question: What upper pulley sizes do you think I can go with on the tunes?

2016 M6 Narrow Body Challenger

Currently I am spraying straight methanol - 872 whp.

Mods include 10% lower, 2.95 upper, cat delete, B Woody CAI, JLT Catch can, 180F Thermostat, pinned crank.
Supporting Mods: DSS Carbon fibers drive shaft, drive shaft safety loop, DIRS differential brace, 1400 hp axles, 17" bead locks with MT ET Street/R,

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

So if I went with the Fore drop in dual pump setup, it's rated for up to 950 whp.

HHP Racing Plug & Play Dual Pump Walbro 525LPH Returnless Fuel System for 15-Current Challenger & Charger SRT Hellcat - HHP.HC.FUEL

HHP Racing Plug & Play Dual Pump Walbro 525LPH Returnless Fuel System for 15-Current Challenger & Charger SRT Hellcat - HHP.HC.FUEL

highhorseperformance.com

Could a person add a boost a pump to get more out of this setup down the road if more fuel is needed?

Yes you will need bigger injectors as E-85 needs to flow through quicker. And yes a Fuel pump change best for safety compared to a BAP


Do yourself a favor and sign up for the HHP VIP member, so that you will get a text for the Sales info.

HHP Racing VIP

HHP Racing VIP

highhorseperformance.com

HHP's Veteran Owned Joshua Schwartz will be having Memorial Day Savings Sale.

Josh does E85 Tuning but only in house.

The Experience and Knowledge for the parts and Supporting parts are available.

I would give HHP sales a call to get a package for your E-85 Build.


"Interested in a performance packager for your Gen 3 HEMI?
Contact us!
www.HHPRacing.com
[email protected]
888-894-1115 "

Enjoy All The Fasssst Fun!
Linda

 

[BSouders80]

Thank you Linda. I do appreciate the updates from hhp on sales. Fuel pump was ordered from hhp

 

[HellcatMatt]

2.72 upper with your 10% will be plenty on your stock blower, motor and trans. I made 913whp on E85 with that combo. You can push to maybe a 2.65 upper but you're really maxing out blower speed and creating plenty of heat. Especially on an M6 car its easy to over rev on a shift and overspeed the blower. Secondly, plan on building a trans. The stock (and even built) 6060's tear up the input cluster. GoManGo and I both have built transmissions and Mod2Fame (if your familiar with) has gone through several transmissions at similar power levels. Now he's alot more but seems to have a good setup now. These heavy cars and the tall gear ratios are hard on the trans. GoManGo has a custom ratios in his to combat this and get moving easier.

 

[BSouders80]

What are you guys doing on the modded M6 transmissions?

RSG is one that a few like
Tranzilla?
There's another I believe - Tick Performance?

I would really like to find a used M6 tranny to send out an have built... If anyone knows of one... Let me know??

I am running the McCleod 1200 hp clutch. Not a fan so far, but it hasn't slipped at current whp.

I've looked at the graphs.

If a person leaves their rear diff stock at 3.70
Would it make sense to run the 2.98 / 2.1 / 1.43 gear setups?
If a person goes to 3.90 rear diff - Is that too low?

I'm running 305/45/17 MT ET Street/r

 

[HellcatMatt]

I personally have an RPM Transmissions Level 7 with stock ratios. I asked about switching trans gearsets and they recommended I didn’t. They had told me the larger (taller) gears are stronger.

I’ve heard of all brands breaking but Mike (GoManGoHC) has had good luck with his Tranzilla I believe. It just depends on what you do and how you drive it. None of them seem completely bulletproof however.

RPM told me Liberty Gear was working on custom billet gears but weren’t sure when they were going to be available. I waited 10 months and it still didn’t happen.

Nth Moto runs a custom billet setup in their H-Pattern 1800-2000+hp Vipers but I’m not sure whose building them for them.

 

[16GoManGoHC]

What are you guys doing on the modded M6 transmissions?

RSG is one that a few like
Tranzilla?
There's another I believe - Tick Performance?

I would really like to find a used M6 tranny to send out an have built... If anyone knows of one... Let me know??

I am running the McCleod 1200 hp clutch. Not a fan so far, but it hasn't slipped at current whp.

I've looked at the graphs.

If a person leaves their rear diff stock at 3.70
Would it make sense to run the 2.98 / 2.1 / 1.43 gear setups?
If a person goes to 3.90 rear diff - Is that too low?

I'm running 305/45/17 MT ET Street/r

2.98, 2.10, 1.43, 1.0 was my first Tranzilla and I ran it with the stock 3.70 rear and stock clutch. 2.85 upper, stock lower, Held 855 wheel for 2 years, had a 9.998 track pass with that combo. Built engine, Went to E85, 925 wheel, broke the 2.98 Tranzilla, 2-3 shift took the input cluster out. The 2.98 from RSG is only available in 4340 steel gear material, 9310 was recommended but it’s only available in the 2.66, 1.90, 1.34, 1.0 gear combo, went with it, liked 1 and 2 but didn’t like third, third was my on the street hard pulling gear, so I changed the rear to a 3.90 to get third pulling better, helped 4th as well but cut top end of 4th down to right at my 1/4 mph of 142-145, which is good for 1/4 mile stuff but not street roll racing as a 4-5 shift is required and you must be very careful with that as a 4-3 shift instead of a 4-5 shift will ruin your day and the Barton shifter centers very heavy on the 3-4 gate, even with a spring removed. I’m now on a +10 lower and 2.72 Litens upper and at 950-960 wheel now but torque up a bunch as that pulley combo makes instant 21-22 psi of boost on billet inlet plate blower with a port matched snout hogged out to match up to a 100mm BBK TB. But Spun the blower coupling soon after with that +10 2.72 combo so pinned the coupling, both sides, I highly recommend doing such as it’s the same as the crank, only held on by clamp load of the bolt head, no key way, so it’s pin it or spin it same as the crank. luckily the coupling hub is much softer than the rotor shaft and a new coupling hub fixed things. When I took the snout off the bolt head from the blower side coupling fell out onto my secondary blower blanket, the stock bolt is a grade 10.9 bolt, upgraded it to a grade 12.9 bolt, had a ARP bolt but the head is too high to use it. I sometimes take the rpm up to 7-7200 so I won’t go any smaller on the upper, the blowers on its hairy edge now, without a Killer Chiller the IAT’s are pretty high from spinning the blower that fast, you may run into a heat issue and timing pull from too high of IAT so you may want to start looking for a 2.7 blower, or a Whipple upgrade, or at the very least a inter chiller of some sort. Once you start getting close to 1000 wheel the game starts changing with how much $ each additional 50 hp is going to cost you.

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[BSouders80]

@16GoMango

can you tell me more about pinning the coupling?
Where can I order parts? Sounds like good insurance.

killer chiller vs FI Interchiller…
$1100 vs $2650
Lots of good about FI…
Mixed reviews on KC from a few years back
Anyone running KC these days with good reviews?

 

[16GoManGoHC]

I’ve had my Drag Size Killer Chiller for about 3 years now, still making 28F coolant but the +10 and 2.72 pulley tax it hard during a 1/4 run.
The pinning jig I made myself, along with the puller for removing the hubs, I don’t know of anyone selling those tools. I know Bond pins the hubs and gears, Jokers might you’d have to give Brett a call and ask him. I’d offer making and selling the tools but time and more so energy not on my side of late.