[Black Cat]

Black Cat,

What do you think should be done (or is being done) to fix this whole mess? How should Dodge go about choosing cars to build and should it try to fulfill most/all of the VONs? Should it stick with the allocation system or try something new? I'm tired of pointing fingers for blame and I am more interested in figuring out how the mess will be cleaned up. Share your opinion...

No doubt there is fault with the process, but again, there's a difference between getting blindsided by a huge demand that you did not anticipate and playing in the grey area.

I don't see how you get away from allocation. Dodge isn't the only manufacturer with the same issue. You can't give a small dealer more cars than a big dealer. Don't you think the big reputable dealers could have done a sales blitz and got a bunch of Hellcat orders? Absolutely they could have!! But they didn't because they knew they wouldn't be able to get that many cars and they didn't want to damage their market reputation.

 

[Menesesjesse]

The answer unfortunately will not make everyone happy. The blame can be shared by many but ultimately the consumer is on the short end. To fix this, FCA and the dealers need to better communicate with us. The backlog is doable but time and resources will dictate when we get them.

 

[FreightTrain]

I think the "cat" is out of the bag

 

[Vinnerman]

No doubt there is fault with the process, but again, there's a difference between getting blindsided by a huge demand that you did not anticipate and playing in the grey area.

I don't see how you get away from allocation. Dodge isn't the only manufacturer with the same issue. You can't give a small dealer more cars than a big dealer. Don't you think the big reputable dealers could have done a sales blitz and got a bunch of Hellcat orders? Absolutely they could have!! But they didn't because they knew they wouldn't be able to get that many cars and they didn't want to damage their market reputation.

I have a meeting tomorrow afternoon will get back with ya...

I have no idea who Black Cat is,,,,, but I think we have a direct connection to FCA, Dodge, SRT or all of them with Black Cat. I would guess that "Black Cat" understands everything that everyone on this forum is going through. It would be my guess that all of the "problems" here have a direct line to the "top" of the management chain via Black Cat. I think that there will be "light at the end of the tunnel", even though it looks like a long dark tunnel for some at this point. I have been extremely lucky with my order and build and am very thankful for that. I can only attempt to imagine the pain some are having, I think Black Cat sees the pain very clearly.

 

[Menesesjesse]

Black Cat. How to fix this. FCA uses reps that serve areas. I believe these reps can be the conduit to the allocation and ordering process.
1. Verify orders of Hellcats
2. Require each dealer release sold price to determine allocation priority
3. Institute a penalty box for dealers who over order or gouge buyers based on concrete guidance
4. User dealer satisfaction ratings to assist in priority ratings for allocation
5. For every personal order taken, FCA should contact the potential buyer with a general time frame to deliver. This is transparency and is what will keep buyers from jumping dealer to dealer looking for a different car or ordering multiple cars.
6. Prohibit dealers from selling new hellcats on eBay
7. Prohibit dealers from buying the car and selling a new car as used to skirt the penalty box
8. The penalty box is transparent to the consumer and will last for a determined number of allocation periods. Dealers must rectify all issues to be considered for future allocations.
9. Lastly be publicly proactive in giving the customer the way forward versus pointing fingers.
This paper can be improved I'm sure but it's a start towards course correction.

 

[Hemi Dave]

Let's operate off your pre-edit post there, Hemi Dave:

Quote

"You mean those crooked dealers who are selling the Hellcats at a markup????
And you say you know dodge only planned on building 2500 units? Then well the Hell did they keep the system open and take over 9000 orders (as per Tim K)
You can blame dealers all you want...FCA screwed up by accepting orders they couldn't fill.
They could have easily shut down the system after 2500 orders....right?????"

I don't agree with dealers selling above MSRP, but then again I assume you know what 'MSRP' stands for, don't you? I'll lay out the acronym for ya: Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price.

Not MMRP (Manufacturers Mandated Retail Price).

The dealers have the right to do that if they want to and if they offend perspective customers by doing so, they do so at their own risk (to their reputation and/or customer goodwill).

1) Yes, it was common knowledge that the first production was going to be 2500 units.


In a big dealer network you can have a landslide of orders fairly quickly on something like this. This level of demand was never expected.

2) You were expecting the Dodge IT department to have a software kill switch in place once order number 2500 hit the system and shut it down?

But again, Dodge management isn't a crooked bunch and there's certainly anxiety over the way things played out that they wish they would have anticipated. Do you really think they don't care about their customers?

3)No one is perfect.

4) Dodge is actively seeking out Hellcat customers to discuss their Hellcat buying experience to in an effort to improve it.

5)They're a GREAT company, so give them a break.

6) Again, if your dealer took your deposit and didn't explain to you how many cars he expected to get and where you're at in line then your issue is with your dealer, not Dodge. Capisce?

Hmmm. Where do I start????

1) 2500 units was common knowledge??
2500 units was such "common knowledge" that even the FCA dealerships didn't know it? That even Tim K didn't know it??
A great company wouldn't let that happen....
Room for improvement #1

2) So I guess you are saying the "Software Kill Switch" only works after you hit 9000 accepted orders when you can only fill 2500?
That's an excellent public relations move. (Sarcasm in full effect)
A great company wouldn't let that happen.
Room for improvement #2

3) No one is perfect?

That's what Bill Clinton said after "Lewinsky Gate"........FAIL...
A great company doesn't answer criticism like that.
Room for improvement #3 (Assuming you are FCA employee)

4) So Dodge is actively seeking out Hellcat customers to discuss the buying (waiting?) experience?

They just have to read social media to see how that's going....and they have.
Just a PR ploy....obvious....if it's even true. ....
And what's a Hellcat customer? VON's, VIN's, only car delivered or all of the above?
A great company wouldn't think this action would really help the overwhelming bad social media on this issue.
Room for improvement #4

5) Great company?

All I will say is the Hellcat rollout has been anything but "GREAT"

6) My dealer didn't take a deposit from me, and he said he didn't know how many Hellcats he would get.
He also didn't say it was limited to 2500.
I have my VON and am waiting like the majority of the Hellcat customers.
We are eagerly waiting for FCA to call us to ask how our buying experience has been .......Capische?............

 

[Black Cat]

Hmmm. Where do I start????

1) 2500 units was common knowledge??
2500 units was such "common knowledge" that even the FCA dealerships didn't know it? That even Tim K didn't know it??
A great company wouldn't let that happen....
Room for improvement #1

2) So I guess you are saying the "Software Kill Switch" only works after you hit 9000 accepted orders when you can only fill 2500?
That's an excellent public relations move. (Sarcasm in full effect)
A great company wouldn't let that happen.
Room for improvement #2

3) No one is perfect?

That's what Bill Clinton said after "Lewinsky Gate"........FAIL...
A great company doesn't answer criticism like that.
Room for improvement #3 (Assuming you are FCA employee)

4) So Dodge is actively seeking out Hellcat customers to discuss the buying (waiting?) experience?

They just have to read social media to see how that's going....and they have.
Just a PR ploy....obvious....if it's even true. ....
And what's a Hellcat customer? VON's, VIN's, only car delivered or all of the above?
A great company wouldn't think this action would really help the overwhelming bad social media on this issue.
Room for improvement #4

5) Great company?

All I will say is the Hellcat rollout has been anything but "GREAT"

6) My dealer didn't take a deposit from me, and he said he didn't know how many Hellcats he would get.
He also didn't say it was limited to 2500.
I have my VON and am waiting like the majority of the Hellcat customers.
We are eagerly waiting for FCA to call us to ask how our buying experience has been .......Capische?............

Yes Hemi Dave, I do Capische - you have never worked in a top management capacity in a Fortune 500 company and do not have a background that would enable you to understand the inertia of a big ship.

Yes - GREAT company!

 

[Hemi Dave]

Yes Hemi Dave, I do Capische - you have never worked in a top management capacity in a Fortune 500 company and do not have a background that would enable you to understand the inertia of a big ship.

Yes - GREAT company!

So your excuse is that you are a big Fortune 500 company so it gives you a pass?

I have busted drug dealers that are better managed....Seriously....They wont take an order for 9lbs of heroin if they can only deliver 2.5lbs.

You don't have a background in law enforcement so you wouldn't understand.

 

[Black Cat]

So your excuse is that you are a big Fortune 500 company so it gives you a pass?

I have busted drug dealers that are better managed....Seriously....They wont take an order for 9lbs of heroin if they can only deliver 2.5lbs.

You don't have a background in law enforcement so you wouldn't understand.

That's correct officer - and I have no pride issues with admitting that I know nothing about your line of work.

But help me out here, if it's so easy to bust those big Heroin dealers, why is there so much damn heroin on the streets? Do you guys just suck at what you do?

I'm not trying to be a Dick with you, but do you get the point? If it was easy, no doubt both issues (the Hellcat mess and the Heroin mess) would have been fixed long ago - don't you think?

 

[Dak59RT]

Heroin is not a good example. Create a new super drug and try to guess what the demand will be. Estimate based on super drugs that have come out previously that you should only produce 2500 units of said drug. You get blindsided when 9000 units of your super drug are demanded. You don't have the ability to kick up your production... So you tell your "dealers" that you are using an allocation system... The high volume dealers get some of the super drug and whoever moves it the fastest gets more. What else can be done? I don't see anything that can be done other than perhaps more transparency with your dealers and customers to let them know that production is, in fact, limited (based on demand).

 

[Black Cat]

Heroin is not a good example. Create a new super drug and try to guess what the demand will be. Estimate based on super drugs that have come out previously that you should only produce 2500 units of said drug. You get blindsided when 9000 units of your super drug are demanded. You don't have the ability to kick up your production... So you tell your "dealers" that you are using an allocation system... The high volume dealers get some of the super drug and whoever moves it the fastest gets more. What else can be done? I don't see anything that can be done other than perhaps more transparency with your dealers and customers to let them know that production is, in fact, limited (based on demand).

If you're a major car dealer, regardless of marque, you should be a professional businessman. These guys are not fly by night used car dealers, they're pros. Do you really think a professional businessman would think that they could get an unlimited number of a premium specialty production performance car?

I know a very prominent dealer who has the Chevy line. He knows full well that he will only get a few Z06 corvettes and a few Z28 Camaros. Chevy doesn't need to tell him that every time they introduce a new benchmark vehicle. He knows that because he's a successful, seasoned pro. When he feels like he's getting close to how many he can get (he doesn't get a firm number) he tells the customer - "hey, I'll take a small deposit but I'm not sure I can get another car, just so you understand I can't guarantee delivery". And he doesn't take 10 more orders after that one!

Do you really believe that the Dodge dealers all thought they could get as many Hellcats as they could get orders for?

 

[Hemi Dave]

That's correct officer - and I have no pride issues with admitting that I know nothing about your line of work.

But help me out here, if it's so easy to bust those big Heroin dealers, why is there so much damn heroin on the streets? Do you guys just suck at what you do?

I'm not trying to be a Dick with you, but do you get the point? If it was easy, no doubt both issues (the Hellcat mess and the Heroin mess) would have been fixed long ago - don't you think?

Horrible comparison.........

If we could just close down the process like FCA there would be no drugs.
But unlike FCA we have no control over that........ so that makes your companies predicament self inflicted thru mismanagement.

 

[Black Cat]

Horrible comparison.........

If we could just close down the process like FCA there would be no drugs.
But unlike FCA we have no control over that, so it makes your companies predicament self inflicted thru mismanagement.

you made the comparison, not me.

who says I work for FCA? I might be Lee Iacocca, remember? I retired a few years back and started writing. I highly recommend 'Where Have All The Leaders Gone' - one of my better works...

do you really think FCA has control over 2500 dealers business practices? My guess would be that after this debacle there might be a 'come to Jesus'....

 

[Tannehill]

Troll..... Troll..... Troll your boat...

 

[Black Cat]

Troll..... Troll..... Troll your boat...

Bingo! You're a genius!

BTW - what's your VON number?

 

[Hemi Dave]

you made the comparison, not me.

who says I work for FCA? I might be Lee Iacocca, remember? I retired a few years back and started writing. I highly recommend 'Where Have All The Leaders Gone' - one of my better works...

do you really think FCA has control over 2500 dealers business practices? My guess would be that after this debacle there might be a 'come to Jesus'....

.............and I might be a remorseful Tim K trying to repent for my Hellcat sins..............

 

[Black Cat]

.............and I might be a remorseful Tim K trying to repent for my Hellcat sins..............

Ooh, ooh, ooh - it's that sarcasm thing again!

So you don't think Dodge management feels bad about this situation?

Do you think the poor innocent 'enthusiastic' dealers feel bad about the situation?

Sins are conscious and intentional...

 

[bobby35ny]

So many theories but its SO simple, FCA management messed up big time!
Whoever made the call about estimating demand should be looking for a new job.
Did the dealers add to this, of course!
It's SO simple really........ really is!!
I'm not a marketing genius but holy crap its so easy to estimate.

Lets look at GM and Ford numbers.
Chevy sells 90k of all flavors of the Camaro, of that 8k yr ZL1
Ford sells about 80k of mustangs of that about 7k GT500 650hp when they made them...
FCA sells about 50K challengers, hmmm........how many Hellcats will we sell?. Highest HP in the market .....DUH....not 2500!!!. BTW your fired!
4500+
And yes, of course the FCA order system CAN stop taking orders when it hits a certain number, even a monkey could code that in 10min!

 

[Lurch251]

Ok ok ok. This whole situation sucks. Truth be told there's probably blame on both ends (FCA and dealers).
If there was going to be only 2,500 made then that should of been "common knowledge" to all. There could of been an "off switch" at 2,500 and they could of put a dash plaque 1 of 2,500 and so on.

There could of been an order page specific to this car advising dealers with a count down of units available etc. once an order was accepted by FCA. Then dealers only take deposits once an order has been confirmed.

I think everyone was surprised or caught blind sided by the amount of orders this quickly. But I certainly don't blame those that ordered.

But all the shady dealers out there are making all look bad. On a site today I saw one listed at $106K but after "savings" it was $96K. That just shows you that some of these dealers think we're all idiots. Wasn't like Dodge clearly stated the MSRP was $59,995 all over the web and articles.

So quit fighting between each other, sit down, have a coke and enjoy the wait.

 

[Lord Hellcat]

Black Cat. I agree that there are two sides to every coin. But I also agree that the FCA should have had the ability to better control this whole Hellcat debacle in a far more professional manner. If my memory serves me correctly there where rumours that Hellcat production would be limited to 2500 vehicles. Was it not Tim K who stated this was utter rubbish and that Dodge would build as many Hellcats as they took orders for.
Bob and I believe one other possibly Roanoke were the only dealers guaranteeing MSRP. So no wonder they had shed loads of orders flood in. They must have thought that they were in with a chance of fulfilling them so something changed or they are stupid which I don't believe.
I'm just hoping that with the order book for 2015 now closed, the guys and girls with aged VON's will get their cars. Can you confirm that this is what Dodge is working towards.