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It’s interesting to see all the panic but there is a big difference here vs ‘71. Performance got neutered then, performance is getting BETTER now. The only ones I think that will hurt in the end are the die hard manual trans/V8 combo people that want a brand new car.

A lot of people talk about how this is the end of an era, it’s 1971 all over again, etc. but it’s just a shift towards something new. You see it all the time in the manual vs auto debate. “Auto is faster, faster is faster”, etc etc. If dodge nails the retro styling again, the performance increase is going to be huge on a new chassis that isn’t 10+ years old, with an updated interior let’s see how many people are strong enough to not buckle at the knees and dump their now old, out of warranty, auto redeye for a brand new faster is faster challenger. It would be a much different story if dodge was coming out saying that’s it we can’t go up in HP only down, 392’s only after this no more hellcats. But that’s not what’s happening.

For the people that want a V8 for the sound and the fact that it’s a V8, there are plenty of those around and plenty will be on the market for a long time. Heck even dodge isn’t going to leave with the best one, the new z06 will be insane. And if you need a challenger you’d be out of warranty anyways, can build whatever you want.

Just my opinion. People talk a big talk but based on a lot of the threads here I don’t think a lot of peoples egos will be able to truly handle being the slower car on the street for very long. I see diehard owners and people with toy money hanging on while the general population moves away and loves their new 2.xx 0-60, 9 second 1/4 mile challenger fresh off the showroom floor with a warranty.
 

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2022 Jailbreak
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It’s interesting to see all the panic but there is a big difference here vs ‘71. Performance got neutered then, performance is getting BETTER now. The only ones I think that will hurt in the end are the die hard manual trans/V8 combo people that want a brand new car.

A lot of people talk about how this is the end of an era, it’s 1971 all over again, etc. but it’s just a shift towards something new. You see it all the time in the manual vs auto debate. “Auto is faster, faster is faster”, etc etc. If dodge nails the retro styling again, the performance increase is going to be huge on a new chassis that isn’t 10+ years old, with an updated interior let’s see how many people are strong enough to not buckle at the knees and dump their now old, out of warranty, auto redeye for a brand new faster is faster challenger. It would be a much different story if dodge was coming out saying that’s it we can’t go up in HP only down, 392’s only after this no more hellcats. But that’s not what’s happening.

For the people that want a V8 for the sound and the fact that it’s a V8, there are plenty of those around and plenty will be on the market for a long time. Heck even dodge isn’t going to leave with the best one, the new z06 will be insane. And if you need a challenger you’d be out of warranty anyways, can build whatever you want.

Just my opinion. People talk a big talk but based on a lot of the threads here I don’t think a lot of peoples egos will be able to truly handle being the slower car on the street for very long. I see diehard owners and people with toy money hanging on while the general population moves away and loves their new 2.xx 0-60, 9 second 1/4 mile challenger fresh off the showroom floor with a warranty.
Given the cost of the Redeye JB, if we were concerned about being the slower car, we wouldn't be spending on the JB. For the same cost, we could get a Porsche 911 Carrera that runs on par with the REWB in terms of general acceleration, absolutely dominates it everywhere else, and costs, on average, a couple grand LESS. The 2022 C8 Stingray averages 10 grand less, and the BMW M4 is 20 grand cheaper. We could get a Tesla Model S Performance (not a Plaid) for a little more, but most definitely within the 105-110k realm.

Thus, for most of us I imagine, we aren't buying the car to be the fastest people in our zip code. People like me buy it because it is one of the very last big V8 muscle cars, and the most potent example of this design the world may never see again. They're loud, unrefined, brutish, and altogether completely bonkers in terms of what they deliver. They're not precision machines. They're the automotive equivalent of Gallagher's mallet to the proverbial watermelon. People don't pay to watch folks eat watermelon with a knife and fork... oh, but we'll pay to see them smashed all over the first two rows at a concert hall by a short bald guy with a big sledgehammer.

Many EV makers have seemingly lost touch with what makes an exciting car. Most of them in the $60k+ range offer sanitized, clinical driving experiences. Quiet cabins, reduced steering feel and input requirements, hyper-reliance on technology to perform most every function, and interior appointments that almost look like an outpatient surgeon's waiting room. The Jailbreaks and other Hellcats like them are no such things. While they too have some technology involved, they're still very much analog inspired. We still have a pushrod V8 stuffed in under all the sensors and wires. We can feel the torque, hear the sounds, smell the smells. Our cool whizbang tech does things like route A/C air into the engine for efficient power generation. We don't have silly things like the ability to play flappy bird on our center screens while we're waiting in traffic. Everything about the Hellcats is almost completely backwards from what "modern" people want in a car. The Hellcats are loud, unruly, undisciplined, purposely unrefined, and absolutely offensive to the common sensibilities of the type of people who polish rocks on Etsy for a living.

As I've said before, the Hellcats are the most potent example of ICE muscle performance the world has ever seen. There's faster cars, smarter cars, quicker cars... but they're not RWD big V8 muscle cars. For them, it's not about precision handling or even being the fastest down the drag strip. A muscle car, in its purest form, is a statement piece. It might be big, it might be a little slow sometimes... but no matter if it's sitting at idle at a stoplight, cruising down the highway, or ripping up a drag strip, the muscle car does what it does with style and sound. They're supremely comfortable, but therein lies the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the muscle car. Anyone who drives one understands that at the tap of a foot, that comfy sofa on wheels can turn into a fire-breathing, neck-snapping dragon. While it can't out-accelerate a Tesla Model S, nobody pays attention to the Model S when it's at WOT. Everybody instead looks at the muscle car with its nose pointed oh so slightly skyward with its rear tires shooting smoke as the roar and whine of the engine offer up something that the quicker Tesla cannot... It's an unforgettable experience that the occupants of the muscle car feel and hear every second of. A Tesla just sort of scoots... wheeeeeeeeeee so fast. Let's go get a Starbucks.

We buy muscle cars because they're muscle cars. We buy things like the Jailbreak because they are the baddest muscle cars of all time. An i4, i6, or an EV are just not the same. Maybe in the future they could be, but these hyper-efficient car designers are going to have to rediscover what it takes to build a proper driver's car. As it stands today, these cars tend to try their best to remove the driver from the performance equation and thus reduces the feedback (aka the thrill) provided to the driver. Ultra smooth, ultra quiet, and with tech like counter braking to prevent body roll, are all things that make for a very boring driving experience in so many of these "Hellcat killers."

They're just not driver's cars... they're not muscle cars. For this reason, people like me are just fine with a slower muscle car and we'd rather go out with the biggest bang than settle for living a boring life behind the wheel of a boring car.
 

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Given the cost of the Redeye JB, if we were concerned about being the slower car, we wouldn't be spending on the JB. For the same cost, we could get a Porsche 911 Carrera that runs on par with the REWB in terms of general acceleration, absolutely dominates it everywhere else, and costs, on average, a couple grand LESS. The 2022 C8 Stingray averages 10 grand less, and the BMW M4 is 20 grand cheaper. We could get a Tesla Model S Performance (not a Plaid) for a little more, but most definitely within the 105-110k realm.

Thus, for most of us I imagine, we aren't buying the car to be the fastest people in our zip code. People like me buy it because it is one of the very last big V8 muscle cars, and the most potent example of this design the world may never see again. They're loud, unrefined, brutish, and altogether completely bonkers in terms of what they deliver. They're not precision machines. They're the automotive equivalent of Gallagher's mallet to the proverbial watermelon. People don't pay to watch folks eat watermelon with a knife and fork... oh, but we'll pay to see them smashed all over the first two rows at a concert hall by a short bald guy with a big sledgehammer.

Many EV makers have seemingly lost touch with what makes an exciting car. Most of them in the $60k+ range offer sanitized, clinical driving experiences. Quiet cabins, reduced steering feel and input requirements, hyper-reliance on technology to perform most every function, and interior appointments that almost look like an outpatient surgeon's waiting room. The Jailbreaks and other Hellcats like them are no such things. While they too have some technology involved, they're still very much analog inspired. We still have a pushrod V8 stuffed in under all the sensors and wires. We can feel the torque, hear the sounds, smell the smells. Our cool whizbang tech does things like route A/C air into the engine for efficient power generation. We don't have silly things like the ability to play flappy bird on our center screens while we're waiting in traffic. Everything about the Hellcats is almost completely backwards from what "modern" people want in a car. The Hellcats are loud, unruly, undisciplined, purposely unrefined, and absolutely offensive to the common sensibilities of the type of people who polish rocks on Etsy for a living.

As I've said before, the Hellcats are the most potent example of ICE muscle performance the world has ever seen. There's faster cars, smarter cars, quicker cars... but they're not RWD big V8 muscle cars. For them, it's not about precision handling or even being the fastest down the drag strip. A muscle car, in its purest form, is a statement piece. It might be big, it might be a little slow sometimes... but no matter if it's sitting at idle at a stoplight, cruising down the highway, or ripping up a drag strip, the muscle car does what it does with style and sound. They're supremely comfortable, but therein lies the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the muscle car. Anyone who drives one understands that at the tap of a foot, that comfy sofa on wheels can turn into a fire-breathing, neck-snapping dragon. While it can't out-accelerate a Tesla Model S, nobody pays attention to the Model S when it's at WOT. Everybody instead looks at the muscle car with its nose pointed oh so slightly skyward with its rear tires shooting smoke as the roar and whine of the engine offer up something that the quicker Tesla cannot... It's an unforgettable experience that the occupants of the muscle car feel and hear every second of. A Tesla just sort of scoots... wheeeeeeeeeee so fast. Let's go get a Starbucks.

We buy muscle cars because they're muscle cars. We buy things like the Jailbreak because they are the baddest muscle cars of all time. An i4, i6, or an EV are just not the same. Maybe in the future they could be, but these hyper-efficient car designers are going to have to rediscover what it takes to build a proper driver's car. As it stands today, these cars tend to try their best to remove the driver from the performance equation and thus reduces the feedback (aka the thrill) provided to the driver. Ultra smooth, ultra quiet, and with tech like counter braking to prevent body roll, are all things that make for a very boring driving experience in so many of these "Hellcat killers."

They're just not driver's cars... they're not muscle cars. For this reason, people like me are just fine with a slower muscle car and we'd rather go out with the biggest bang than settle for living a boring life behind the wheel of a boring car.
I absolutely 100% agree with everything you said. I plan to get another hellcat before the end is over if I can. I want to wait and see if I can get a manual or if I’m forced into an auto with the current situation. My main point was that I don’t think this change is as drastic or “life ending” as people are making it out to be. I just think a whole lot of people will accept and thoroughly enjoy the change and a lot of people will trade up, assuming dodge nails the styling.
 

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......but no one will care if the E-cars can do nines at the strip. You know how utterly boring it'll be watching electric motors going down the drag strip??
No one will be bored because the stands will be empty. :(

I have to wonder what the sport of drag racing will look like as a spectator sport in 10-15 years when ICE cars are out of favor. I cant imagine 20k people in the stands at a national event to watch electric cars.
I agree, see above. :)
 
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What we have here is (forced) evolution. In the day, we old guys couldn’t wait until we got our DL. We attended driver’s ed as the earliest possible age, took our road test on the earliest day we qualified, then went from there. We salivated every time we saw a Vette or muscle car and couldn’t wait for the day when we could actually own one. This resurgence of the true muscle car is a truly and unexpected wonder and we are extremely lucky to have the opportunity to experience and enjoy the ultimate!

EV’s on the other hand… Yes, they will be fast. The youth today do not care about cars, EV’s, ICE’s or even driving. There is no excitement, no young fans, no anticipation, for the vast majority, nobody cares. Dodge is in the middle of a great propaganda campaign to convince muscle car guys that there is something better, but I think most of us are not fooled.

This is what Kuniskis said about ICE and EV fans:

“…at some point those two factions will converge. The problem is no one knows when they will converge. My job is to provide confidence, over the next 24 months, that we’re gonna do this.”

Personally, I doubt it. But I am very happy to have mine!
 

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Given the cost of the Redeye JB, if we were concerned about being the slower car, we wouldn't be spending on the JB. For the same cost, we could get a Porsche 911 Carrera that runs on par with the REWB in terms of general acceleration, absolutely dominates it everywhere else, and costs, on average, a couple grand LESS. The 2022 C8 Stingray averages 10 grand less, and the BMW M4 is 20 grand cheaper. We could get a Tesla Model S Performance (not a Plaid) for a little more, but most definitely within the 105-110k realm.

Thus, for most of us I imagine, we aren't buying the car to be the fastest people in our zip code. People like me buy it because it is one of the very last big V8 muscle cars, and the most potent example of this design the world may never see again. They're loud, unrefined, brutish, and altogether completely bonkers in terms of what they deliver. They're not precision machines. They're the automotive equivalent of Gallagher's mallet to the proverbial watermelon. People don't pay to watch folks eat watermelon with a knife and fork... oh, but we'll pay to see them smashed all over the first two rows at a concert hall by a short bald guy with a big sledgehammer.

Many EV makers have seemingly lost touch with what makes an exciting car. Most of them in the $60k+ range offer sanitized, clinical driving experiences. Quiet cabins, reduced steering feel and input requirements, hyper-reliance on technology to perform most every function, and interior appointments that almost look like an outpatient surgeon's waiting room. The Jailbreaks and other Hellcats like them are no such things. While they too have some technology involved, they're still very much analog inspired. We still have a pushrod V8 stuffed in under all the sensors and wires. We can feel the torque, hear the sounds, smell the smells. Our cool whizbang tech does things like route A/C air into the engine for efficient power generation. We don't have silly things like the ability to play flappy bird on our center screens while we're waiting in traffic. Everything about the Hellcats is almost completely backwards from what "modern" people want in a car. The Hellcats are loud, unruly, undisciplined, purposely unrefined, and absolutely offensive to the common sensibilities of the type of people who polish rocks on Etsy for a living.

As I've said before, the Hellcats are the most potent example of ICE muscle performance the world has ever seen. There's faster cars, smarter cars, quicker cars... but they're not RWD big V8 muscle cars. For them, it's not about precision handling or even being the fastest down the drag strip. A muscle car, in its purest form, is a statement piece. It might be big, it might be a little slow sometimes... but no matter if it's sitting at idle at a stoplight, cruising down the highway, or ripping up a drag strip, the muscle car does what it does with style and sound. They're supremely comfortable, but therein lies the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the muscle car. Anyone who drives one understands that at the tap of a foot, that comfy sofa on wheels can turn into a fire-breathing, neck-snapping dragon. While it can't out-accelerate a Tesla Model S, nobody pays attention to the Model S when it's at WOT. Everybody instead looks at the muscle car with its nose pointed oh so slightly skyward with its rear tires shooting smoke as the roar and whine of the engine offer up something that the quicker Tesla cannot... It's an unforgettable experience that the occupants of the muscle car feel and hear every second of. A Tesla just sort of scoots... wheeeeeeeeeee so fast. Let's go get a Starbucks.

We buy muscle cars because they're muscle cars. We buy things like the Jailbreak because they are the baddest muscle cars of all time. An i4, i6, or an EV are just not the same. Maybe in the future they could be, but these hyper-efficient car designers are going to have to rediscover what it takes to build a proper driver's car. As it stands today, these cars tend to try their best to remove the driver from the performance equation and thus reduces the feedback (aka the thrill) provided to the driver. Ultra smooth, ultra quiet, and with tech like counter braking to prevent body roll, are all things that make for a very boring driving experience in so many of these "Hellcat killers."

They're just not driver's cars... they're not muscle cars. For this reason, people like me are just fine with a slower muscle car and we'd rather go out with the biggest bang than settle for living a boring life behind the wheel of a boring car.
This pretty much says it all....
 
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I agree with all you said......but no one will care if the E-cars can do nines at the strip. You know how utterly boring it'll be watching electric motors going down the drag strip??
Agreed, people go to the strip to have their brain tissue buzzed, ears bleed, the air pulled from their chest, and the faucet turned on in their eyes from that wonderful cotton candy nitro methane! it’s a 6D experience that’s unmatched anywhere on this blue rock
 

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Given the cost of the Redeye JB, if we were concerned about being the slower car, we wouldn't be spending on the JB. For the same cost, we could get a Porsche 911 Carrera that runs on par with the REWB in terms of general acceleration, absolutely dominates it everywhere else, and costs, on average, a couple grand LESS. The 2022 C8 Stingray averages 10 grand less, and the BMW M4 is 20 grand cheaper. We could get a Tesla Model S Performance (not a Plaid) for a little more, but most definitely within the 105-110k realm.

Thus, for most of us I imagine, we aren't buying the car to be the fastest people in our zip code. People like me buy it because it is one of the very last big V8 muscle cars, and the most potent example of this design the world may never see again. They're loud, unrefined, brutish, and altogether completely bonkers in terms of what they deliver. They're not precision machines. They're the automotive equivalent of Gallagher's mallet to the proverbial watermelon. People don't pay to watch folks eat watermelon with a knife and fork... oh, but we'll pay to see them smashed all over the first two rows at a concert hall by a short bald guy with a big sledgehammer.

Many EV makers have seemingly lost touch with what makes an exciting car. Most of them in the $60k+ range offer sanitized, clinical driving experiences. Quiet cabins, reduced steering feel and input requirements, hyper-reliance on technology to perform most every function, and interior appointments that almost look like an outpatient surgeon's waiting room. The Jailbreaks and other Hellcats like them are no such things. While they too have some technology involved, they're still very much analog inspired. We still have a pushrod V8 stuffed in under all the sensors and wires. We can feel the torque, hear the sounds, smell the smells. Our cool whizbang tech does things like route A/C air into the engine for efficient power generation. We don't have silly things like the ability to play flappy bird on our center screens while we're waiting in traffic. Everything about the Hellcats is almost completely backwards from what "modern" people want in a car. The Hellcats are loud, unruly, undisciplined, purposely unrefined, and absolutely offensive to the common sensibilities of the type of people who polish rocks on Etsy for a living.

As I've said before, the Hellcats are the most potent example of ICE muscle performance the world has ever seen. There's faster cars, smarter cars, quicker cars... but they're not RWD big V8 muscle cars. For them, it's not about precision handling or even being the fastest down the drag strip. A muscle car, in its purest form, is a statement piece. It might be big, it might be a little slow sometimes... but no matter if it's sitting at idle at a stoplight, cruising down the highway, or ripping up a drag strip, the muscle car does what it does with style and sound. They're supremely comfortable, but therein lies the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the muscle car. Anyone who drives one understands that at the tap of a foot, that comfy sofa on wheels can turn into a fire-breathing, neck-snapping dragon. While it can't out-accelerate a Tesla Model S, nobody pays attention to the Model S when it's at WOT. Everybody instead looks at the muscle car with its nose pointed oh so slightly skyward with its rear tires shooting smoke as the roar and whine of the engine offer up something that the quicker Tesla cannot... It's an unforgettable experience that the occupants of the muscle car feel and hear every second of. A Tesla just sort of scoots... wheeeeeeeeeee so fast. Let's go get a Starbucks.

We buy muscle cars because they're muscle cars. We buy things like the Jailbreak because they are the baddest muscle cars of all time. An i4, i6, or an EV are just not the same. Maybe in the future they could be, but these hyper-efficient car designers are going to have to rediscover what it takes to build a proper driver's car. As it stands today, these cars tend to try their best to remove the driver from the performance equation and thus reduces the feedback (aka the thrill) provided to the driver. Ultra smooth, ultra quiet, and with tech like counter braking to prevent body roll, are all things that make for a very boring driving experience in so many of these "Hellcat killers."

They're just not driver's cars... they're not muscle cars. For this reason, people like me are just fine with a slower muscle car and we'd rather go out with the biggest bang than settle for living a boring life behind the wheel of a boring car.
A like isn’t enough for this passage, a bravo is in order! NOTHOA (nail on the head once again) thanks Xy 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye Wide Body
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It’s interesting to see all the panic but there is a big difference here vs ‘71. Performance got neutered then, performance is getting BETTER now. The only ones I think that will hurt in the end are the die hard manual trans/V8 combo people that want a brand new car.

A lot of people talk about how this is the end of an era, it’s 1971 all over again, etc. but it’s just a shift towards something new. You see it all the time in the manual vs auto debate. “Auto is faster, faster is faster”, etc etc. If dodge nails the retro styling again, the performance increase is going to be huge on a new chassis that isn’t 10+ years old, with an updated interior let’s see how many people are strong enough to not buckle at the knees and dump their now old, out of warranty, auto redeye for a brand new faster is faster challenger. It would be a much different story if dodge was coming out saying that’s it we can’t go up in HP only down, 392’s only after this no more hellcats. But that’s not what’s happening.

For the people that want a V8 for the sound and the fact that it’s a V8, there are plenty of those around and plenty will be on the market for a long time. Heck even dodge isn’t going to leave with the best one, the new z06 will be insane. And if you need a challenger you’d be out of warranty anyways, can build whatever you want.

Just my opinion. People talk a big talk but based on a lot of the threads here I don’t think a lot of peoples egos will be able to truly handle being the slower car on the street for very long. I see diehard owners and people with toy money hanging on while the general population moves away and loves their new 2.xx 0-60, 9 second 1/4 mile challenger fresh off the showroom floor with a warranty.
I don't see it completely that way. Yes I wanted a Hellcat originally because it was badass but more so for the entire experience, the retro look, the whole thing. There hasn't been a muscle car worth paying my hard earned cash for in the last 40 years until now tbh. I was out of the market by choice. Everything has been crap imo. These cars demand my money lol. They have exactly what people like me want. There will always be something faster but will this visceral experience combined with such a rich retro design also be included? If so then you're right, I’ll bite. But there are plenty of people driving around in much slower 60’s Camaro’s or something similar who couldn't care less about having the fastest car on the block. It’s the whole experience. And that market stays strong.
With that being said I do think you're right though. It’ll be different and faster, and people will gobble them up. Hell many here will. I think a lot of those people just wont be trading in their Hellcats though. They're not going to be giving that experience up just to get the next fastest thing that doesn't offer that ‘good old days’ experience. A new younger breed of buyer with new money will be taking over that market along with the speed junkies here that you mentioned lol. In the end you will be right strictly by default. ICE’s are going away. It’s not like they’ll be building both and we can then debate lol. You win lol.
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye Wide Body
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Given the cost of the Redeye JB, if we were concerned about being the slower car, we wouldn't be spending on the JB. For the same cost, we could get a Porsche 911 Carrera that runs on par with the REWB in terms of general acceleration, absolutely dominates it everywhere else, and costs, on average, a couple grand LESS. The 2022 C8 Stingray averages 10 grand less, and the BMW M4 is 20 grand cheaper. We could get a Tesla Model S Performance (not a Plaid) for a little more, but most definitely within the 105-110k realm.

Thus, for most of us I imagine, we aren't buying the car to be the fastest people in our zip code. People like me buy it because it is one of the very last big V8 muscle cars, and the most potent example of this design the world may never see again. They're loud, unrefined, brutish, and altogether completely bonkers in terms of what they deliver. They're not precision machines. They're the automotive equivalent of Gallagher's mallet to the proverbial watermelon. People don't pay to watch folks eat watermelon with a knife and fork... oh, but we'll pay to see them smashed all over the first two rows at a concert hall by a short bald guy with a big sledgehammer.

Many EV makers have seemingly lost touch with what makes an exciting car. Most of them in the $60k+ range offer sanitized, clinical driving experiences. Quiet cabins, reduced steering feel and input requirements, hyper-reliance on technology to perform most every function, and interior appointments that almost look like an outpatient surgeon's waiting room. The Jailbreaks and other Hellcats like them are no such things. While they too have some technology involved, they're still very much analog inspired. We still have a pushrod V8 stuffed in under all the sensors and wires. We can feel the torque, hear the sounds, smell the smells. Our cool whizbang tech does things like route A/C air into the engine for efficient power generation. We don't have silly things like the ability to play flappy bird on our center screens while we're waiting in traffic. Everything about the Hellcats is almost completely backwards from what "modern" people want in a car. The Hellcats are loud, unruly, undisciplined, purposely unrefined, and absolutely offensive to the common sensibilities of the type of people who polish rocks on Etsy for a living.

As I've said before, the Hellcats are the most potent example of ICE muscle performance the world has ever seen. There's faster cars, smarter cars, quicker cars... but they're not RWD big V8 muscle cars. For them, it's not about precision handling or even being the fastest down the drag strip. A muscle car, in its purest form, is a statement piece. It might be big, it might be a little slow sometimes... but no matter if it's sitting at idle at a stoplight, cruising down the highway, or ripping up a drag strip, the muscle car does what it does with style and sound. They're supremely comfortable, but therein lies the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the muscle car. Anyone who drives one understands that at the tap of a foot, that comfy sofa on wheels can turn into a fire-breathing, neck-snapping dragon. While it can't out-accelerate a Tesla Model S, nobody pays attention to the Model S when it's at WOT. Everybody instead looks at the muscle car with its nose pointed oh so slightly skyward with its rear tires shooting smoke as the roar and whine of the engine offer up something that the quicker Tesla cannot... It's an unforgettable experience that the occupants of the muscle car feel and hear every second of. A Tesla just sort of scoots... wheeeeeeeeeee so fast. Let's go get a Starbucks.

We buy muscle cars because they're muscle cars. We buy things like the Jailbreak because they are the baddest muscle cars of all time. An i4, i6, or an EV are just not the same. Maybe in the future they could be, but these hyper-efficient car designers are going to have to rediscover what it takes to build a proper driver's car. As it stands today, these cars tend to try their best to remove the driver from the performance equation and thus reduces the feedback (aka the thrill) provided to the driver. Ultra smooth, ultra quiet, and with tech like counter braking to prevent body roll, are all things that make for a very boring driving experience in so many of these "Hellcat killers."

They're just not driver's cars... they're not muscle cars. For this reason, people like me are just fine with a slower muscle car and we'd rather go out with the biggest bang than settle for living a boring life behind the wheel of a boring car.
You forget the biggest caveat - they don't care about what us dinosaurs want OR what it means to build a muscle car. They have no need to remember any of it really. We are not who they're going after. There’s far more money in I-cars. We’re driving tomorrow’s Model A’s.
 
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You forget the biggest caveat - they don't care about what us dinosaurs want OR what it means to build a muscle car. They have no need to remember any of it really. We are not who they're going after. There’s far more money in I-cars. We’re driving tomorrow’s Model A’s.
It could go either way, really. Like most of us here, we lived through what I term "the dark ages of automotive design" in the 1990s. Across the board, especially the early to mid '90s cars from all manufacturers were in a state of evolution. On the one hand, many were (and had been) embracing steep cost cutting design measures (cheap plastic trim, glued on exterior moldings, badge engineering, etc). Heck, even Mercedes and BMW were following suit and were using some of the same parts suppliers that "lowly" GM used for certain interior trim pieces. Then, couple that with the experimental options with their weird LCD info screens, poorly designed seats, ergonomic oddities like the Cadillacs with vibrating seats... and so on. On the performance side, everyone was low power, low performance. Poor braking, even worse handling in many cases.

The auto manufacturers were simply carrying over from the late 70s and 80s as they "assumed" that people just wanted a cool looking car and didn't care much about actual performance. This is how we all ended up with the Fiero, the MR-2, Fox Mustangs, and the entire horde of clones that were the Chevy Cavalier, Pontiac Grand Am/Grand Prix, Ford Contour, 328i, Honda Accord/Prelude, and the ill forgotten entire Saturn coupe and sedan lineup. Everyone had anemic 4 bangers and low output V6s. Even the V8s were still following the fuel savings measures started in the mid '70s that reduced their power to under 300hp on most.

While styling improved in the late 90s, it wasn't for another 15 years til we saw the resurgence of horsepower across the board. Small size turbos became efficient and cost effective, so even the economy cars could stand to get 200hp or more. Once a few auto makers took the plunge and began pushing past the 400hp mark (most notably Ford and Chevrolet... Dodge didn't really catch on until later), downstream of there, the other manufacturers began following suit. Now we have 400+ hp Infinitis and Lexus models, not to mention every major manufacturer of a performance model has one that has at least 500hp. There's a 300hp Toyota Camry on the market, to show just how much that muscle performance has trickled down.

You're right, designers don't generally care what people want. They're mostly busy with emulating one another. When someone makes a breakthrough, everyone starts copying that feature or design trope. When a couple manufacturers start building 300hp turbo 4-cyl cars, everyone starts building 250-300hp turbo 4-cyl cars. When someone makes an EV that sells, everyone makes a clone. At some point, someone will create something new that will shift the market again... but as of right now, the current EVs are just horrid en masse.

Today, we're seeing the dying off of the ICE. So people (politicians, mostly) say. Politically, we're being told that by 2035, ICE vehicles need to be phased out. As a result, we're just not going to see any innovation in ICE manufacturing between now and then. In the interim, it's 1990 all over again with everyone and their mother building half-baked, relatively poor quality, poor performance EVs. Many of them are hiding this fact behind their raw acceleration numbers. Yes, they're quick... but they're very heavy. Thus, they have one outstanding statistic, but the majority of their other stats are more or less forgettable. We still have EVs being designed that still look like ICE cars, complete with long hoods and short trunks in some cases. Manufacturers are simply not designing cars around the new powerplant, but are just shoehorning them into familiar designs. These cars are going to all come out like the 1991 Pontiac Grand Am at the end of the day. All relatively similar, all relatively bad, and...

I hope to God none of these EV people live in Florida and have to evacuate in front of a hurricane. Because when that finally happens, we'll all see what the real limitation of an EV really is when you have 3 lanes of traffic on the interstate headed away from the hurricane, crawling at 15mph for as far as the eye can see. When they start dropping like flies with dead batteries, it's just going to be pandemonium.

These new EVs are being shipped half-baked and full of hopes and dreams, but the real world is not ready for them, and likely won't be in any real use case. Not until new technology is developed that unchains them from being relatively low range / long recharge. In 20 years, once this transition period is complete, then we can sit and talk about how well the EV revolution went and see what we ended up with.

In the interim, it'll be well close to 2050 before you see a wholesale abandonment of ICE vehicles.
 
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