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Charger SRT Hellcat
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After being an S/C guy my entire car life, I’m venturing out and trying turbos. It’s my tuner’s “wheelhouse”, which swayed me easier. I had a target of 8.9 full weight on my current setup and I believe I would of hit that this fall without issue. I’m looking forward to learning the car all over again. Launching will be the biggest hurdle to dial in to equal / better my current ET’s, but I’ll get it.

I’m going with a Hellion kit with 6466 turbos.

I’m also going to use this Goertz1 air to water intake that will run off the coolant tank under the hood and be chilled by my FI
interchiller.

It will also have a two-step, which will be another fun toy to play with. I’ll be able to leave on a couple different low boost settings to hopefully mirror the launch I’m used to now.

The setup comes with an electronic boost controller and I’ll have various power settings available at the tap of a button all while retaining my flex fuel setup. Boost setting “1 and 2” would be safe for 93 or e85, boost setting 3, 4, 5 would be good on pump e, but not 93, and then boost setting 6 would be an e90 pure race dedicated only.

I’ll be making the move early August. I’ll provide updates, pictures, etc. as the process goes along.

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Challenger SRT Hellcat
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1,735 Posts
do the air filters mount to the turbos under the car? or somewhere else then just plumbed to the turbo?
 

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I have a concern regarding airflow direction from plenum to intake valve. Is not the direction of flow for the intake valves close to vertically downward?

If so, would it not be more flow-efficient to have the plenum wider to position the intake runners so the flow from the plenum is a straight shot, without any doglegs in it? As that manifold looks, it looks like it was designed based on old SBC or BBC thinking, but the Hemi ports are close to facing directly vertically, are they not, or is it that the face of the port is horizontal, leading to that impression?

When you change the direction of anything, including a gas, you have to lose energy/speed or increase power used to move it.
 

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Charger SRT Hellcat
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3,673 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have a concern regarding airflow direction from plenum to intake valve. Is not the direction of flow for the intake valves close to vertically downward?

If so, would it not be more flow-efficient to have the plenum wider to position the intake runners so the flow from the plenum is a straight shot, without any doglegs in it? As that manifold looks, it looks like it was designed based on old SBC or BBC thinking, but the Hemi ports are close to facing directly vertically, are they not, or is it that the face of the port is horizontal, leading to that impression?

When you change the direction of anything, including a gas, you have to lose energy/speed or increase power used to move it.
I’d have to see the guts of it to know for sure. There is another thread in this section where the intake was used and it seems to flow well.
 

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Charger SRT Hellcat
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What is the Maggie 2650 in the title for? Is that what you have now. If it is how did you like it.
Loved it and it will be for sale in a couple weeks. Amazing blower all around. It’s the best choice out there right now aside from the Whipple 3.0 that isn’t out yet.
 

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88 Posts
After being an S/C guy my entire car life, I’m venturing out and trying turbos. It’s my tuner’s “wheelhouse”, which swayed me easier. I had a target of 8.9 full weight on my current setup and I believe I would of hit that this fall without issue. I’m looking forward to learning the car all over again. Launching will be the biggest hurdle to dial in to equal / better my current ET’s, but I’ll get it.

I’m going with a Hellion kit with 6466 turbos.

I’m also going to use this Goertz1 air to water intake that will run off the coolant tank under the hood and be chilled by my FI
interchiller.

It will also have a two-step, which will be another fun toy to play with. I’ll be able to leave on a couple different low boost settings to hopefully mirror the launch I’m used to now.

The setup comes with an electronic boost controller and I’ll have various power settings available at the tap of a button all while retaining my flex fuel setup. Boost setting “1 and 2” would be safe for 93 or e85, boost setting 3, 4, 5 would be good on pump e, but not 93, and then boost setting 6 would be an e90 pure race dedicated only.

I’ll be making the move early August. I’ll provide updates, pictures, etc. as the process goes along.

View attachment 577009 View attachment 577010 View attachment 577011 View attachment 577012
Congrats Brian I followed you for a min and congrats satera gonna get you right
 

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Challenger SRT 392
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Congratulations on coming over to the Dark Side! :)

You won't be Sorry! I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out as far as power output and your track results!

It should be a BEAST!!!!!
 

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3,673 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks. Hope to get started in 2 weeks. Just waiting on the intake.
 

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64 Posts
After being an S/C guy my entire car life, I’m venturing out and trying turbos. It’s my tuner’s “wheelhouse”, which swayed me easier. I had a target of 8.9 full weight on my current setup and I believe I would of hit that this fall without issue. I’m looking forward to learning the car all over again. Launching will be the biggest hurdle to dial in to equal / better my current ET’s, but I’ll get it.

I’m going with a Hellion kit with 6466 turbos.

I’m also going to use this Goertz1 air to water intake that will run off the coolant tank under the hood and be chilled by my FI
interchiller.

It will also have a two-step, which will be another fun toy to play with. I’ll be able to leave on a couple different low boost settings to hopefully mirror the launch I’m used to now.

The setup comes with an electronic boost controller and I’ll have various power settings available at the tap of a button all while retaining my flex fuel setup. Boost setting “1 and 2” would be safe for 93 or e85, boost setting 3, 4, 5 would be good on pump e, but not 93, and then boost setting 6 would be an e90 pure race dedicated only.

I’ll be making the move early August. I’ll provide updates, pictures, etc. as the process goes along.

View attachment 577009 View attachment 577010 View attachment 577011 View attachment 577012
Stacking dimes on that bad ass intake!
 

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‘16 A8 Shaker
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3,116 Posts
I have a concern regarding airflow direction from plenum to intake valve. Is not the direction of flow for the intake valves close to vertically downward?

If so, would it not be more flow-efficient to have the plenum wider to position the intake runners so the flow from the plenum is a straight shot, without any doglegs in it? As that manifold looks, it looks like it was designed based on old SBC or BBC thinking, but the Hemi ports are close to facing directly vertically, are they not, or is it that the face of the port is horizontal, leading to that impression?

When you change the direction of anything, including a gas, you have to lose energy/speed or increase power used to move it.
Maybe they built the plenum a lil narrow like that and the runners on a slight angle so that the injectors are pointed right at the valve?

To that “change of direction is gonna hurt power” I don’t think so… it’s a slight angle and it’s not like you are relying on gravity or vacuum. Turbo motors do not seem to care about stuff like that. Plenty of air is gonna get crammed in there. That manifold looks genius to me.

The biggest deal with turbo motors is back pressure. Having the least amount of pressure in the exhaust port while still producing X amount of boost. With todays efficient ball bearing set ups and billet wheels you can make a lot of boost with hardly any back pressure. That’s where the power is. Throw some duration and overlap at it (like you would a high rpm n/a motor) and it will make crazy power.

Any updates on this build?
 

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4,901 Posts
Maybe they built the plenum a lil narrow like that and the runners on a slight angle so that the injectors are pointed right at the valve?
I give most merchants little credit for engineering thought or prowess. To this, I add, like the hucksters who sell the made-to-break carbon fiber driveshafts, the merchants who cater to motorheads do not count on their customers having much ability to think critically or examine fluid dynamics on the fly.

It is as a surfboard fin maker said to me once, "You can't market things to these people with science; you just say, 'whoah, dude this fin is way rad!' and they will buy it."

I do not credit manifold merchants with caring about fluid dynamics or even having a mentality capable of comprehending the theories and practices that maximize it, much less ever having looked at a Schlieren photograph of the flow of air around an obstruction, or having done any analysis of computational fluid dynamics. Just because you can cram more air in by sheer "brute force and foolishness" to quote someone who used to be involved in the Can Am world, does not validate a design.

For example, on the Viper, it was found that not a wide-spray pattern from the injection nozzles but a "pencil-beam" spray pattern aimed at the intake valve resulted in better fuel distribution/control.

One of the problems with dogleg-bending the flow of air is that it takes more boost to result in the same airflow as a straight flow.

Another problem only arises to a great extent IF there are suspended droplets in the fuel flow at the dogleg: they want to keep going straight while the far-less-dense air wants to make that sudden turn. When one injects fuel, one wants it in the cylinder, not decorating the sides of the intake runner.

Another problem is the turbulence. Any time fuel has to jump over a sharp bend in the flow conduit wall, there is unnecessary turbulence just after the kink/bend.

Changes in direction are an enemy to flow capacity. The reason the zoomies on WWII fighter planes were pointed backwards is that they found that the thrust added some forward motive force to the plane. Otherwise, a straight pipe that just dumped out, as straight in line as possible from the exhaust valve, would produce optimal power.

Ideally, when you look through a combination of intake runner and intake port, you should be able to see straight through to the back of the exhaust valve/short turn radius and far edge of the exhaust valve area.

Any change of shape or change of direction costs energy. Problematically, it also makes the flow characteristics, especially in a pulsed-flow environment, less predictable and consistent.

The Mazda 787b, With it's four-rotor LeMans-winning engine combination, had stacks of variable length leading to its intake ports. They were straight and round. Modern F1 cars are now copying that idea that the Japanese use to such marvelous effect on their engine, which, having no intake valves, relied entirely on the stack length to optimize power on a per-RPM basis. Modern F1 cars ALSO now vary their intake stack length on a per-RPM basis. Good job, catching up 31 years later? But, given little in the way of space or packaging restraints, the Mazda engineers used arrow-straight stacks right to the intake port.

The IDEAL way to vary RPM emphasis with intake ports is to change their (still circular) cross-section from one circle to a different-sized circle and vary the length.

There are ways to approximate this, but most aren't even changing the length, and the way the cross-section has been varied in the past is by using Constant Velocity carburetors and the block-one-of-the-intake-runners-on-a-4-valve-head Corvette ZR1 method.

If you turned the Germans loose on the Hellcat, they'd be able to have it making 1500 hp, running 9's on street tires, and getting 30mpg, but there is little motivation for them to do so, so they stick to steamrolling the entire world in Formula One for seven years running.

As it stands, it is mostly merchants and hucksters looking to add the Hellcat to their stable of whores from whom they can milk maximum profit. It sure isn't seeming to be anybody with a 3-digit IQ and any motivation to improve the car overall.
 
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