[Neversatisfiedever]

Hey all, newest member here!

So, I got a 15 Hellcat m6 challenger, didn’t put near enough thought into the trans let alone get a good test drive, and now I probably want to swap to 8HP90 or maybe 95.

I have searched quite a bit but wouldn’t be posting if I had a definitive answer.

I know about HTG Tuning, Sound German Performance offering trans controllers but little else about them.

Since this came as an option from the factory, I am hoping this wouldn’t be that complicated and I wouldn’t have to go aftermarket controller. If it’s easier I’m open to doing that.

Basically all the forum posts I’ve seen about this result in people saying how it’s not worth it, cheaper to buy an auto, which is subjective and depends on how deep the buyer is into their car.
I put a goodly down payment so unless I want to take a bath the car stays. I figure the m6 is worth at least $3k since nothing is wrong with it.

I know I would need a trans, probably a driveshaft, and a shifter. Perhaps the crossmember/mounts and definitely cooler lines/cooler. I am mechanically inclined, not the best but done an engine swap, VP44 replacement, lots of odds and ends on various cars/trucks

What all is required on the wiring part?

Who flashes the ecm and bcm?
What am I missing if anything?

Reasons for swap: in deep money wise with this car and tired of taking a loss on cars, gearing SUCKS (I know it can be changed), fragile stock clutch (did get 0-60 in 4.1 but that’s not as fast as auto), PITA taking off from any stop (been driving manuals for about 20 years, it’s not me), clunky as hell (not surprised since it is a high power car and a shifter would probably help), and limited tq capacity beyond stock

Thanks!

 

[Unavowed]

I have nothing to add, but I post this meme every chance I get.

 

[Slowpoke387]

Now you've done it. Let the dress is blue arguments ensue.

 

[Neversatisfiedever]

Now you've done it. Let the dress is blue arguments ensue.

Ah crap, I already did it on the first post? Classic me

 

[Neversatisfiedever]

I have nothing to add, but I post this meme every chance I get.

View attachment 581887

Hahaha or should I say jajajaja. Manuel might not be cutting it

 

[Neversatisfiedever]

Surely some more knowledgeable person than me can chime in!

 

[thetalonguyh]

Reasons for swap: in deep money wise with this car and tired of taking a loss on cars, gearing SUCKS (I know it can be changed), fragile stock clutch (did get 0-60 in 4.1 but that’s not as fast as auto), PITA taking off from any stop (been driving manuals for about 20 years, it’s not me), clunky as hell (not surprised since it is a high power car and a shifter would probably help), and limited tq capacity beyond stock

Thanks!

Couple of points before you go down the rabbit hole.

1. in deep money wise with this car and tired of taking a loss on cars - Assuming you just bought it recently? At Sky high used pricing? Maybe if you give details on how much you paid, miles, color, etc. Others can recommend if you can sell it to recoup or even more. They aren't manufacturing new manuals...so it may be worth more than you think.

2. gearing SUCKS (I know it can be changed), yes, rear end gears can be changed, I think the part is under $1K and you can probably install it yourself. Further, you can your transmission rebuilt for optimal gearing. There is someone else on this board who has done so. Probably not cheap, but also probably not super expensive like swapping a manual setup for an auto.

3. fragile stock clutch (did get 0-60 in 4.1 but that’s not as fast as auto), PITA taking off from any stop - Research Clutch Delay Valve delete or CDV delete...this should be mandatory for anyone that drives a manual. It's a game changer from my eyes and it's a free mod or lack there of. Engagement point will become more consistent.

4. clunky as hell (not surprised since it is a high power car and a shifter would probably help),- All manual owners attest to the Barton shift mod as being a Godsend. Research Barton.

5. limited tq capacity beyond stock - Can't help you here...though I don't know what you're shooting for HP wise. If that was a major concern, should have done some more research before buying one.

...Manual haters will have their automated responses prepared...

 

[DGatzby]

It is easy. You bought it, you drive it and like it. Or simply sell it, now. Sorry, tough love, I have made stupid, way stupid moves also. This is not that bad. Get a grip, my friend, you liked the car yesterday!

 

[Neversatisfiedever]

Couple of points before you go down the rabbit hole.

1. in deep money wise with this car and tired of taking a loss on cars - Assuming you just bought it recently? At Sky high used pricing? Maybe if you give details on how much you paid, miles, color, etc. Others can recommend if you can sell it to recoup or even more. They aren't manufacturing new manuals...so it may be worth more than you think.
Doubt it. I owe about Black Book Clean trade in and the car is not perfect but very nice. Put a large down payment I’m not likely to recoup if I trade.


2. gearing SUCKS (I know it can be changed), yes, rear end gears can be changed, I think the part is under $1K and you can probably install it yourself. Further, you can your transmission rebuilt for optimal gearing. There is someone else on this board who has done so. Probably not cheap, but also probably not super expensive like swapping a manual setup for an auto.

It appears to me unless there’s some specific expensive piece besides the trans, selling the M6 would credit me around $3k and a used 8HP90 wouldn’t be that bad. I saw one for $4k and I have a feeling that wasn’t a great price

3. fragile stock clutch (did get 0-60 in 4.1 but that’s not as fast as auto), PITA taking off from any stop - Research Clutch Delay Valve delete or CDV delete...this should be mandatory for anyone that drives a manual. It's a game changer from my eyes and it's a free mod or lack there of. Engagement point will become more consistent.

Heard of it

4. clunky as hell (not surprised since it is a high power car and a shifter would probably help),- All manual owners attest to the Barton shift mod as being a Godsend. Research Barton.

Done it, looks like $400 with the stock handle, may get one


5. limited tq capacity beyond stock - Can't help you here...though I don't know what you're shooting for HP wise. If that was a major concern, should have done some more research before buying one.
The f*cked up thing is I do a sh*tload of research. I figured the TR6060 would be rated for around stock output but hold way, way more like every other Tremec this side of a T5. They can be built to 1200 up capacity but that’s more $ that doesn’t need to be spent with the auto. Eventually I’d like to add as much power as I can without having to open the engine, research says right at 1000whp which better be more than enough




...Manual haters will have their automated responses prepared...

It is easy. You bought it, you drive it and like it. Or simply sell it, now. Sorry, tough love, I have made stupid, way stupid moves also. This is not that bad. Get a grip, my friend, you liked the car yesterday!

Like it sure, but I think I’d love it more with the 8HP.

Somebody chime in with the info I don’t know but hope is the case! Please

 

[DevilsReject97]

@Neversatisfiedever

One of the guys here on the forum bought a used Hellcat, put 20k on the car, and sold it for more than he bought the car for...

the used car market, performance cars in particular, are insanely crazy right now....

They had a 175k mile Hellcat listed for like $50k just recently...

I won't say you cant get the money out of it, but you certainly could at least find out

 

[Neversatisfiedever]

@Neversatisfiedever

One of the guys here on the forum bought a used Hellcat, put 20k on the car, and sold it for more than he bought the car for...

the used car market, performance cars in particular, are insanely crazy right now....

They had a 175k mile Hellcat listed for like $50k just recently...

I won't say you cant get the money out of it, but you certainly could at least find out

Well I didn’t put $20k
If the market gets crazier I may do that but in the mean time it may be easier in some ways since I have the car bought, know the car and won’t have to again pay silly prices for another semi-unknown quantity.

What all is needed for the swap? The trans, maybe a drive shaft, a shifter, cooler set up of some sort or whatever OEM is. I know the ecu and bcm need flashed for the automatic trans, who does that? Can this be done the OEM way or do I need to go aftermarket? If so, who? I don’t know that a Turbo 400 is the way to go but I see that’s an option.

 

[16GoManGoHC]

What part of the country you in? Take or send your stock M6 to RSG and have the gearing changed. A 4340 2.98/2.10/1.43 Tranzilla will wake it right up, it will feel like a different car, like an animal!! I know as I ran one for 2 years until breaking it finally after 2 years of punishment. To get a stronger 9310 material one I had to go with a higher ratio 2.66/1.90/1.30 variant which is better for street use but I can feel the difference in third gear. About 3500 for the 2.98, about 5k for the 9310 models. No more clutch slipping, it becomes throttle feathering. GREAT upgrade, LOVE them both.

 

[Anguish]

Well I didn’t put $20k
If the market gets crazier I may do that but in the mean time it may be easier in some ways since I have the car bought, know the car and won’t have to again pay silly prices for another semi-unknown quantity.

I think you're misunderstanding what DevilsReject97 was saying. The person they're referencing bought a car, put 20,000 miles on it (ie. drove it a lot), then sold it for more than they bought it for. Depending on when you bought and what you paid, you may be able to not lose by selling the car and getting what you want.

 

[DevilsReject97]

I think you're misunderstanding what DevilsReject97 was saying. The person they're referencing bought a car, put 20,000 miles on it (ie. drove it a lot), then sold it for more than they bought it for. Depending on when you bought and what you paid, you may be able to not lose by selling the car and getting what you want.

Pretty much this.... and thanks for clarifying that for me by the way 🍺 🍺 🍺 🍺 🍺

 

[Rockster]

Hey all, newest member here!

So, I got a 15 Hellcat m6 challenger, didn’t put near enough thought into the trans let alone get a good test drive, and now I probably want to swap to 8HP90 or maybe 95.

I have searched quite a bit but wouldn’t be posting if I had a definitive answer.

I know about HTG Tuning, Sound German Performance offering trans controllers but little else about them.

Since this came as an option from the factory, I am hoping this wouldn’t be that complicated and I wouldn’t have to go aftermarket controller. If it’s easier I’m open to doing that.

Basically all the forum posts I’ve seen about this result in people saying how it’s not worth it, cheaper to buy an auto, which is subjective and depends on how deep the buyer is into their car.
I put a goodly down payment so unless I want to take a bath the car stays. I figure the m6 is worth at least $3k since nothing is wrong with it.

I know I would need a trans, probably a driveshaft, and a shifter. Perhaps the crossmember/mounts and definitely cooler lines/cooler. I am mechanically inclined, not the best but done an engine swap, VP44 replacement, lots of odds and ends on various cars/trucks

What all is required on the wiring part?

Who flashes the ecm and bcm?
What am I missing if anything?

Reasons for swap: in deep money wise with this car and tired of taking a loss on cars, gearing SUCKS (I know it can be changed), fragile stock clutch (did get 0-60 in 4.1 but that’s not as fast as auto), PITA taking off from any stop (been driving manuals for about 20 years, it’s not me), clunky as hell (not surprised since it is a high power car and a shifter would probably help), and limited tq capacity beyond stock

Thanks!

While the manual or automatic is a factory option it is done at the factory. The minute the sheet metal leaves the presses as a naked car chassis the car is assembled with -- among other things -- what transmission it will get.

There is the transmission -- which ain't cheap (WAG? $10K) along with all the interior pieces. Don't forget the cluster, paddle shifters, etc.

The engine controller almost certainly would require a reflash or replacement with one suitable for use with an A8.

The engine wiring harness would probably need to be replaced. A suitable transmission harness sourced and installed.

New drive shaft.

As someone else mentioned the diff gearing with the M6 is "wrong" for the A8 so that probably would need to be changed. And this all requires considerable labor.

You are looking at a complex -- read expensive -- swap with frankly the odds being against a good outcome. The car will have little resale value once the transmission swap is revealed.

Prices dealers are paying for used cars now is way up.Your 2015 Hellcat with a 6-speed has a considerable appeal to a number of used Hellcat shoppers.

Really you are better off selling/trading in your 2015 M-6 for a similar car with an A8. Installed at the factory.

 

[JoeC]

I have nothing to add, but I post this meme every chance I get.

View attachment 581887

.....Lol. As u should Unavowed! Who could blame u?😁

 

[Rockster]

Well at the moment I’m not interested in trading or selling. Not until values go even higher and I can easily justify it.

Surely someone can chime in with the info I need to do this.

Values going higher? Not likely. Latest info I have -- well, at home (I'm at my local Dodge dealer getting my car serviced) in I think yesterday's WSJ -- is used and new car prices are falling. IIRC down around 7% from their recent highs.

You snooze you are going to lose...

Really with modern cars swapping a manual out for an automatic (or vice versa) is an expensive/complex job. If you insist on this best find a shop that has done this and has customers you can speak with about their satisfaction.

Oh, and be sitting down when you hear the quote...

 

[2ndAmend]

It’s not 1969, swapping M to A is a fools errand. Go ask your Dodge Service Manager what he thinks and see how long it takes for him to end the conversation.

Get a Barton, 3.90, skip shift, and enjoy the manual experience! It is not for speed, it is purely for enjoyment. And yes, the HC is a difficult manual to drive requiring more skill, and the ’15 more still because of the “baby elephant” clutch. It is not for the average driver and certainly not something you want to drive every day in stop & go traffic.

Also, if you have read much of this forum, you would know that there are 2 kinds of HC owners:

1. M6 owners who knowingly passed on the faster in every respect A8 simply to enjoy the great fun and pleasure the M6 adds to the driving experience. (Personally, if I actually want to drive an auto, I take the truck.)

2. A8 snobs who think all M6 owners are stupid for not buying a faster car. Many of these may not know how to row, and certian trolls (poster # 2 for example) don’t even own a HC!

If you don’t like it, sell it, you might get more for a M6 than A8 these days!

 

[Neversatisfiedever]

Y’all are missing the point. I want to know what it will take. I have some good info from the controller makers, I want to know what it will take factually.

Unless the market gets even more stupid I’m not taking a loss of my down payment to take a chance on a used HC again since I appear to have a good one.

I know, it only takes $$$ but I want to know what all is needed to make it OEM. Many people have used Sound German to make theirs work in retro HC swaps, HTG has been used to make 8HPxx work even in cars that never had them, and I THINK Hellraiser made the trans work in retro swaps etc. I really need someone who knows the work to chime in.

A controller company already told me I wouldn’t need their controller and that HP tuners can flash the computer but I like second opinions that stick to the subject to back up what was said. So what do you have for me?

 

[2ndAmend]

Neversatisfiedever

Don't think we are missing anything.

Yes, spend $10k-$15k to do the conversion without first directly speaking to the qualified mechanic competent to do the work to fully understand the process and accept that the conversion will devalue your HC $10k-$15k. Sounds like a great plan to me!

Reminds me of the recent Shatner/Takei squabble:

One has gone where few men have gone before, the other goes where no man should go!