[jadrig99]

I purchased a 2016 Charger hellcat (9,000miles) a couple months back that had some mods done to it. LMI CAI, 100mm BBK throttle body, catch can, and cat back exhaust. Its got a pretty mean idle and could possibly have more work done to it. I was curious if there was any way I could tell if the PCM was swapped out...
Thank you
Joe

 

[Sarna March]

Since warranty would not be an issue unless extended was included, you can take it to a dealer?

"Prettty mean idle?" I think a trip to the dyno would be in order. Cars as low-RPM-strong as the supercharged cars would require quite a cam to give a "mean idle." A lumpy idle is one of the things many of us enjoy, and it would take quite a cam to get that from a Hellcat.

This is fascinating. Sounds like you got quite the car there.

 

[baabootoo]

Part number off of it?

 

[Radride]

Check if it has the dreaded P1400 code.

R.K.

 

[Xylander]

Check if it has the dreaded P1400 code.

R.K.

Yep, if the car has a P1400 code, it either has a new unlocked PCM or an unlock was done on the original. Any tune on the vehicle will produce a permanent P1400 (AFTERMARKET CALIBRATION DETECTED/WARRANTY COVERAGE CONFIRMATION REQUIRED) code.

 

[SickToo]

I am not certain p1400 pops if the original pcm is unlocked? The mileage will match what the tcm see’s. What makes it pop p1400?

Imo only a maniac puts a larger throttle body on a blower motor and doesn’t tune for it

 

[Xylander]

I am not certain p1400 pops if the original pcm is unlocked? The mileage will match what the tcm see’s. What makes it pop p1400?

Imo only a maniac puts a larger throttle body on a blower motor and doesn’t tune for it

The P1400 is generated whenever the entire system detects some type of major change to the vehicle. I forget which sensors/modules are polled, but for sure any TCM change/tune/remap, PCM swap/tune will trigger it. If the PCM is tuned, at all, it will trigger a P1400. Swapping the PCM or TCM will trigger it, even if you put in a stock unit. The only way around that one is to have the dealership do the work if it's for a replacement/repair... then the P1400 won't be added. The anti-tampering system they have in place polls each module for a specific part number and configuration. If those ever change, you get a P1400 code. When that code is detected, the next time the vehicle has a clear satellite or WiFi uplink, it sends that information to Dodge. Next, the vehicle writes the P1400 into every reportable module in the car. Thus, at startup, if any module reports a P1400, it writes it to the PCM. Thus, you can't swap a PCM and 5 or 6 other modules to try and clear out the P1400. It's basically a type of self-replicating malware, that once triggered, will always reappear if the code is ever cleared.

Most cheap scanners can't see the P1400 code. You need a professional diagnostic tool or a dealership's system to see it.

 

[Radride]

The P1400 is generated whenever the entire system detects some type of major change to the vehicle. I forget which sensors/modules are polled, but for sure any TCM change/tune/remap, PCM swap/tune will trigger it. If the PCM is tuned, at all, it will trigger a P1400. Swapping the PCM or TCM will trigger it, even if you put in a stock unit. The only way around that one is to have the dealership do the work if it's for a replacement/repair... then the P1400 won't be added. The anti-tampering system they have in place polls each module for a specific part number and configuration. If those ever change, you get a P1400 code. When that code is detected, the next time the vehicle has a clear satellite or WiFi uplink, it sends that information to Dodge. Next, the vehicle writes the P1400 into every reportable module in the car. Thus, at startup, if any module reports a P1400, it writes it to the PCM. Thus, you can't swap a PCM and 5 or 6 other modules to try and clear out the P1400. It's basically a type of self-replicating malware, that once triggered, will always reappear if the code is ever cleared.

Most cheap scanners can't see the P1400 code. You need a professional diagnostic tool or a dealership's system to see it.

Actually any good tuner can turn off that code. Most don't know how to but the dealership will know if they did deeper because they will compare how many flashes the ECU should have based on your VIN compared to how many it has (there is a counter internally).

R.K.

 

[Slidd]

Actually any good tuner can turn off that code. Most don't know how to but the dealership will know if they did deeper because they will compare how many flashes the ECU should have based on your VIN compared to how many it has (there is a counter internally).

R.K.

But then I heard that Dodge will instruct dealer to reload the factory tune and it will come back, but don't know if that is true or not.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Xylander]

Actually any good tuner can turn off that code. Most don't know how to but the dealership will know if they did deeper because they will compare how many flashes the ECU should have based on your VIN compared to how many it has (there is a counter internally).

R.K.

Not true. I am not going to go on the record and say I'm the world's best tuner or anything, but I have been tuning cars a very long time. Sure, you can clear it. You can swap modules, but that P1400 always comes back. Always. Even if you swap everything, the P1400 comes back every time Dodge does an OTA update to the system. As I mentioned, that P1400 gets replicated across the entire system and is repeated on individual modules. If the system is ever cleared of the P1400, it just gets rewritten. So, while someone may think they cleared the P1400, it will return. Even if you somehow clear out every instance of it in the system, so long as the car has a functional cell radio module, it will just pop back up in an hour or two.

Even if you disable the phone module, you'll just end up with a perma pop-up that covers the center cluster MFD that says something like, "Repair/Replace phone module - code (something)". I tried that myself a while back. So yes, you can defeat the P1400 by disabling the internal comm connection (by removing it), but then you're left with a popup that kind of ruins the dash display until it's repaired.

Ford uses a very similar system on the Coyote's PCM. Only the Coyote doesn't give any indication by way of a trouble code that it's been tampered with. Instead, it flashes the diagnostic file to Ford's home servers every time you turn on the car. Thus, the tune being present is ever-persistent in their database, which is also usually not available to the dealer. In this case, you can hoodwink the dealer by failing over to the stock tune, but if you ever file a warranty claim on the powertrain, the department that does warranty approvals on Ford's end knows right away if the car has been tuned or not.

Ford's anti-tampering system is read only. They receive info and store it. Dodge's is a two-way system. They receive the vehicle's data and also push config files back. Thus, you can do an entire engine, trans, and electronics swap and start with a clean slate, only to get the P1400 right back as soon as the cell radio connects to Dodge's servers.

 

[SickToo]

Interesting. Seems like if that were the case Dodge would be able to remotely return the tune to stock as well no? Or they can only write error codes?

 

[Radride]

Not true. I am not going to go on the record and say I'm the world's best tuner or anything, but I have been tuning cars a very long time. Sure, you can clear it. You can swap modules, but that P1400 always comes back. Always. Even if you swap everything, the P1400 comes back every time Dodge does an OTA update to the system. As I mentioned, that P1400 gets replicated across the entire system and is repeated on individual modules. If the system is ever cleared of the P1400, it just gets rewritten. So, while someone may think they cleared the P1400, it will return. Even if you somehow clear out every instance of it in the system, so long as the car has a functional cell radio module, it will just pop back up in an hour or two.

Even if you disable the phone module, you'll just end up with a perma pop-up that covers the center cluster MFD that says something like, "Repair/Replace phone module - code (something)". I tried that myself a while back. So yes, you can defeat the P1400 by disabling the internal comm connection (by removing it), but then you're left with a popup that kind of ruins the dash display until it's repaired.

Ford uses a very similar system on the Coyote's PCM. Only the Coyote doesn't give any indication by way of a trouble code that it's been tampered with. Instead, it flashes the diagnostic file to Ford's home servers every time you turn on the car. Thus, the tune being present is ever-persistent in their database, which is also usually not available to the dealer. In this case, you can hoodwink the dealer by failing over to the stock tune, but if you ever file a warranty claim on the powertrain, the department that does warranty approvals on Ford's end knows right away if the car has been tuned or not.

Ford's anti-tampering system is read only. They receive info and store it. Dodge's is a two-way system. They receive the vehicle's data and also push config files back. Thus, you can do an entire engine, trans, and electronics swap and start with a clean slate, only to get the P1400 right back as soon as the cell radio connects to Dodge's servers.

Keep in mind that people that mod the pcm are only going to the dealer for warranty work hoping it gets covered. Like I said above, the P1400 can be erased but the flashes counter will be out. If the dealer is smart they'll jump down the rabbit hole to find out exactly what was done.

R.K.

 

[SickToo]

I modded my pcm and never go to the dealer

: )

That is how other manufacturers void warranty. They just look at how many times the pcm has been written to. Don’t think this guy is worried about the warranty tho… Sounded like he wants to know if there is a chance his combination has been tuned correctly

 

[Xylander]

Interesting. Seems like if that were the case Dodge would be able to remotely return the tune to stock as well no? Or they can only write error codes?

I imagine anything is possible, but think of it more like a computer operating system. It's easy to patch OTA, but to stop/start and replace the OS is a bit more hands-on. The software in the PCM is firmware, not software, really. It has software databases and such loaded onto it, but the primary system files are written in MISRA-C and is flashed into the firmware. Thus, to replace it all, it pretty much has to be flashed physically. The data files the system generates and its config parameters can be communicated bi-directionally, but changes to the core OS has to be done physically.

This is primarily done to limit what harm a hacker can do to a car if they successfully hack into it. As we've seen with past Mercedes hacks, a hacker can access the system and do things like change the format of displayed data or send data to the onboard messaging service... aka, "U BEEN HAXXOR3D BRO." They can also download any non-secured GPS data, contact lists and so on... but what they can't do with a locked down firmware system is take control of it and drive your car off a bridge.

Given enough money and resources, I'm sure a total OTA firmware replacement could be done, in so much as you can do the same with a computer BIOS flash using a self-executing batch file loaded into the ROM. One would just have to physically enable that process as I am pretty sure such remote functionality is disabled by the manufacturer. I'm not that great of a hardware guy, so I don't know exactly what would have to be done to allow such a transfer.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

Post a Picture of the Engine compartment.

Having an aftermarket Throttle body would need supporting parts and a Tune

Linda

 

[jadrig99]

The P1400 is generated whenever the entire system detects some type of major change to the vehicle. I forget which sensors/modules are polled, but for sure any TCM change/tune/remap, PCM swap/tune will trigger it. If the PCM is tuned, at all, it will trigger a P1400. Swapping the PCM or TCM will trigger it, even if you put in a stock unit. The only way around that one is to have the dealership do the work if it's for a replacement/repair... then the P1400 won't be added. The anti-tampering system they have in place polls each module for a specific part number and configuration. If those ever change, you get a P1400 code. When that code is detected, the next time the vehicle has a clear satellite or WiFi uplink, it sends that information to Dodge. Next, the vehicle writes the P1400 into every reportable module in the car. Thus, at startup, if any module reports a P1400, it writes it to the PCM. Thus, you can't swap a PCM and 5 or 6 other modules to try and clear out the P1400. It's basically a type of self-replicating malware, that once triggered, will always reappear if the code is ever cleared.

Most cheap scanners can't see the P1400 code. You need a professional diagnostic tool or a dealership's system to see it.

I have and

Post a Picture of the Engine compartment.

Having an aftermarket Throttle body would need supporting parts and a Tune

Linda

By this scan... looks like a 180⁰ thermostat as well.
ps. My right wheel speed sensor is jacked...waiting on that part.

 

[jadrig99]

I am not certain p1400 pops if the original pcm is unlocked? The mileage will match what the tcm see’s. What makes it pop p1400?

Imo only a maniac puts a larger throttle body on a blower motor and doesn’t tune for it

out of curiosity, why would you say that about an unturned car with a bigger throttle body? I always thought they just really increased throttle response/give an orgasmic start🤭

 

[SickToo]

Cuz I would not do anything that changes airflow without changing the fuel tables too : )

 

[Xylander]

out of curiosity, why would you say that about an unturned car with a bigger throttle body? I always thought they just really increased throttle response/give an orgasmic start🤭

Simply adding a TB does squat for nothing. This is a mod that's common with Mustangs, SPs, and R/T people who seem to think putting a large TB on a stock engine will somehow give them more power. What really happens is, without a tune, the PCM is just going to open it only to 30-40% at WOT to compensate. Even with a tune, the stock TB flows more than the engine can use, so without something requiring more fuel/air... like a valve job/heads, cam, some type of FI or pulley solution, then the TB just isn't doing anything.

 

[Unholy707]

Simply adding a TB does squat for nothing. This is a mod that's common with Mustangs, SPs, and R/T people who seem to think putting a large TB on a stock engine will somehow give them more power. What really happens is, without a tune, the PCM is just going to open it only to 30-40% at WOT to compensate. Even with a tune, the stock TB flows more than the engine can use, so without something requiring more fuel/air... like a valve job/heads, cam, some type of FI or pulley solution, then the TB just isn't doing anything.

Wrong, the snout is the restriction, not the heads Ported snout and throttle body has shown at least 50+whp gains.