[M9ADE3]

Hello everyone, I don’t post/read a lot in here but I noticed between every while same discussion whenever im here to look out for certain thing.
I myself had 3 different CAI installed (AFE-Bwoody-JLT) and I did dyno testing on all of them, but I can’t get hold of the numbers it was on 2019 lost them but I remember the results and in general adding a CAI to our hellcat is WORTHLESS unless you’re tuning the PCM otherwise don’t even think it, unless you care about more supercharged whine and exhaust sound ONLY specially when downshifting. Other than those two reasons you’re losing HP and increasing the Intake temperature (intake manifold) specially with both bwoody and AFE. JLT less intake temperature. (You can wrap the intake for sure but it’s not 1990 HONDA CIVIC to do that. I can’t remember the exact HP numbers on Dyno Mustang but i can tell the following:
1- AFE lowest HP
2-Bwoody middle in between
3- JLT the least one but still lower than stock but close. Remember 1HP makes a difference.

Out of the Dyno street racing I had a friend with a charger (I’m a challenger) we used to race with both (stock CAI) and he’s always a head of me by little my front bumper at his rear door which is normal we all know charger is lighter and faster than challenger (anyway let’s not discuss this please). So after dropping CAI on all of the three he’s ahead of me by big difference than before. Of course each one has discussion results like mentioned above but overall he’s a head of me (more than usual) we always run on less half gas on the tank and no passengers same tires (none have something advantage). So I threw them all on my storage room and I’m running back the stock CAI. My current modification now is only the Bwoody heat exchanger which is also worthless and waste of money I had to trim my front end to install it and end up with same temperatures it’s doesn’t cool down faster. Even i remember emailed bwoody on 2017 they replied back with nonsense reply that also I can’t recall. But as long it runs normal and like stock not worse i have no issue (the look only is sick and i like it).

out of topic also running high catalytic conv or going catless reduces the HP. In short word don’t treat the hellcat like a regular SRT back in the day where you can drop anything on regular SRT without tuning and gain HP. I won’t go why because it needs a whole different thread.

pease out✌. I hope anyone later searches about this here or google this thread will pop up

 

[Octanewide]

Which AFE CAI they have a few.. Magnum force or Momentum GT

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[M9ADE3]

Which AFE CAI they have a few.. Magnum force or Momentum GT

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

They’re all bad even on regular SRT just avoid this company. But here you go Sir (nvm the marketing part +29Hp even with tuning you won’t get it😂)

 

[2ndgen]

The trick to the HP claims by these vendors is they don't say at what RPM--could be +29HP down at 1100rpm--nowhere near increasing the peak HP at all.
People read it and just assume it's an increase across the entire chart--when for the claim to be true it only has to be true at a single point on the chart!

 

[M9ADE3]

Whoever did delete his comment I read it on my email and I’m still going to reply.

his comment:
“The trick to the HP claims by these vendors is they don't say at what RPM--could be +29HP down at 1100rpm--nowhere near increasing the peak HP at all. People read it and just assume it's an increase across the entire chart--when for the claim to be true it only has to be true at a single point...”

I did mention I did run it on a dyno and that means I didn't run it only till 1000 or 5000RPM come on 😅

keep in mind Dyno Mustang shows slightly higher numbers compare to other dyno.

 

[rickydeuce]

This will not end the discussion.

 

[M9ADE3]

This will not end the discussion.

Then it’s the reader problem he needs to sit with himself and find out a solution.

 

[16GoManGoHC]

Here’s the dyno graph, stock air box, stock stock air box with K&N filter element, and JLT CAI. First 2 pulls stock air box, second 2 stock air box with KN, last 2 pulls JLT CAI. I did this as a baseline before modifying my car, this was on its stock tune. Pause done within 15 minutes or so of each other and no changes to the tie down on the Dyno,only thing changed was the filter and then the air box removed and JLT installed. I’m a guy who doesn’t listen to the BS,I test stuff myself, I posted this long ago and many time since and the argument still comes up LOL. I make about 1150 wheel now, each step of the way dyno proven on same dyno. Look closely in pictures you can see stock air box then JLT and the air inlet temps too. Was a pretty damn apples to apples fair comparison, Not like JLT gave me the CAI for free for proving it helps lol, I don’t get a penny from anyone.
Hope this helps someone, again lol

CLEARLY it’s NOT a single point on the dyno graph, the HP is up with the CAI for a good portion of the top of the pull.

 

[motorheadmike]

This is gaaaaaarbage.

Either charge air mass goes up, down, or doesn't change. If the ECM sees more air, it adds more fuel. In real-time with Closed Loop wideband correction. If the IATs change so will timing, adding or subtracting power potential. Simple as that.

Intakes on these cars after 2019 (2018 for Demons) are pointless.

The only intake design that I have seen that would offer a marked improvement (and no filtering capabilities) is the one made for the Drag Pack cars.

Enjoy your snake oil.

 

[M9ADE3]

This is gaaaaaarbage.

Either charge air mass goes up, down, or doesn't change. If the ECM sees more air, it adds more fuel. In real-time with Closed Loop wideband correction. If the IATs change so will timing, adding or subtracting power potential. Simple as that.

Intakes on these cars after 2019 (2018 for Demons) are pointless.

The only intake design that I have seen that would offer a marked improvement (and no filtering capabilities) is the one made for the Drag Pack cars.

Enjoy your snake oil.

I’m not going to bother myself with you explaining 101 things. But you’re agreeing with me here and you can’t see it.

 

[16GoManGoHC]

Sorry for the myth buster, REAL Numbers don’t lie.
Guess the Whipple 3.0 with a bigger Throttle Body didn’t put me over 1000 wheel either over the stock IHI
I real world street test too, 10 seconds on the street on 20” tires rowing your own is no easy feat, it came in little gains over time, starting with better breathing through a CAI 3 years ago. Car has gone 9.998 at 133 at the track at the 850 level but the goal has always been 10 seconds on the street no burnout on a 20” stock looking rim and tire. 0-130 in 9 seconds on the street is cooking!! Working on a launch tune now for better 60 fts and 0-60 on the street and look out at the track, be in the 9’s all day. Not trying to start a war but I’m a data driven REAL numbers guy. I don’t believe anything I hear, only what I prove myself, as they say, proof is in the pudding, and this is Crem Brûlée

 

[Jon P]

I would like to see just a aftermarket carbon fiber tube to get rid of the stock rubber tube. Keep the OE air box and filter.

 

[M9ADE3]

Sorry for the myth buster, REAL Numbers don’t lie.
Guess the Whipple 3.0 with a bigger Throttle Body didn’t put me over 1000 wheel either over the stock IHI
I real world street test too, 10 seconds on the street on 20” tires rowing your own is no easy feat, it came in little gains over time, starting with better breathing through a CAI 3 years ago. Car has gone 9.998 at 133 at the track at the 850 level but the goal has always been 10 seconds on the street no burnout on a 20” stock looking rim and tire. 0-130 in 9 seconds on the street is cooking!! Working on a launch tune now for better 60 fts and 0-60 on the street and look out at the track, be in the 9’s all day. Not trying to start a war but I’m a data driven REAL numbers guy. I don’t believe anything I hear, only what I prove myself, as they say, proof is in the pudding, and this is Crem Brûlée View attachment 602683 View attachment 602684 View attachment 602685 View attachment 602686 View attachment 602687 View attachment 602688
View attachment 602688

I do respect numbers very much since I’m a TA (Technical Analyst). But you’re waaaaay out of topic here we are talking about fully stock engine with no tune and dyno numbers are REAL. A CAI with proper tune is a good thing to start with and good HP gains.
And let me add to that I think on 1/4 or 1/2 mile drag strip with CAI no tune will improve your timing but at higher RPM’s and speed you will see the difference.

 

[rayzazoo]

Hellcat/Redeye/Demon Air Intake Designs

Goals: greater than OEM filter surface area (increased area to flow clean air; increased dust capacity) close to ambient air; air sourced from outside the engine bay less restrictive intake tube; least restrictive design will yield the largest performance gains on supercharged/modified/heavily...

www.hellcat.org

 

[motorheadmike]

I’m not going to bother myself with you explaining 101 things. But you’re agreeing with me here and you can’t see it.

Your initial post was anecdotal at best, and rife with conjecture. You never once broached why they are ineffective. I did that for you. The "fact" that you are a "TA" and did nothing to speak to the factory supplied instrumentation speaks loads about your professional competence. My sentiment about this topic being utter garbage stands, and your bringing it up added no value.

I really wanted to find the owner of a 2015-16 Hellcat at cars and coffee yesterday to hear his justification/understanding of just how little his K&N intake was doing for him. Or how he now had 750hp.

@rayzazoo provided one of the most meaningful links, and @hpindy has done some empirical testing as well.

Nonetheless, thanks for the nonsensical contribution this weekend. See you again in a few years.

 

[Denver 3d printing]

I would like to see just a aftermarket carbon fiber tube to get rid of the stock rubber tube. Keep the OE air box and filter.

I have them Dodge Challenger Hellcat/Redeye 19+ Demon 18 Super Stock | D3D print

 

[16GoManGoHC]

I do respect numbers very much since I’m a TA (Technical Analyst). But you’re waaaaay out of topic here we are talking about fully stock engine with no tune and dyno numbers are REAL. A CAI with proper tune is a good thing to start with and good HP gains.
And let me add to that I think on 1/4 or 1/2 mile drag strip with CAI no tune will improve your timing but at higher RPM’s and speed you will see the difference.

My first post was just that, totally stock dyno pull, then put in a K&N filter and dyno, then put a JLT CAI on and dyno. All within the same hour same day same tune, gained 10-15 HP just from the CAI. (610-615 to solid 2 pulls back to back 625 hp and gained 15-20 ft lbs of Tq as well. A roots blower responds well to letting it breath. A future mod was to put a billet inlet plate on the blower, port match the snout to it, up the TB from 92 to 95 mm and that gained a solid 50 HP, NO TUNE CHANGE, just letting it breath better. Look at the gains up top. Better breathing on any tune will net gains if there’s fuel to support it.

That’s 2 pulls traced right over the top of one another, look at the area under the curve, all from just better breathing.

 

[M9ADE3]

Hellcat/Redeye/Demon Air Intake Designs

Goals: greater than OEM filter surface area (increased area to flow clean air; increased dust capacity) close to ambient air; air sourced from outside the engine bay less restrictive intake tube; least restrictive design will yield the largest performance gains on supercharged/modified/heavily...

www.hellcat.org

What does that have to do with this subject? That thread design details, nothing technical there !

 

[M9ADE3]

My first post was just that, totally stock dyno pull, then put in a K&N filter and dyno, then put a JLT CAI on and dyno. All within the same hour same day same tune, gained 10-15 HP just from the CAI. (610-615 to solid 2 pulls back to back 625 hp and gained 15-20 ft lbs of Tq as well. A roots blower responds well to letting it breath. A future mod was to put a billet inlet plate on the blower, port match the snout to it, up the TB from 92 to 95 mm and that gained a solid 50 HP, NO TUNE CHANGE, just letting it breath better. Look at the gains up top. Better breathing on any tune will net gains if there’s fuel to support it.
View attachment 602711 View attachment 602712 View attachment 602713 View attachment 602714
That’s 2 pulls traced right over the top of one another, look at the area under the curve, all from just better breathing.

Did you have the blower plate installed and test it after stock run (without TB) ?. And what fuel you were running and did use any fuel booster on both stock and after dropping CAI?. And remember DynoJet always gives higher numbers and not accurate enough I try to avoid it whenever I plan to run a test on any of my SRT’s

I haven’t tried the K&N but im sure the JLT did not gain any HP vs the stock run and same thing I did all on the same day and within three hours.

Solid project but haven’t you thought about starting on the cooling parts before letting it breath better ? Like heat exchanger or killer chiller ? Maybe the 3.5” exchanger will work better along with electric fans maybe. And why not tuning now and gain more HP and let the PCM understand what’s going on there and drop a 180* thermostat to make things better.

 

[M9ADE3]

Did you have the blower plate installed and test it after stock run (without TB) ?. And what fuel you were running and did use any fuel booster on both stock and after dropping CAI?. And remember DynoJet always gives higher numbers I try to avoid it whenever I plan to run a test on any of my SRT’s

I haven’t tried the K&N but im sure the JLT did not gain any HP vs the stock run and same thing I did all on the same day and within three hours.

Solid project but haven’t you thought about starting on the cooling parts before letting it breath better ? Like heat exchanger or killer chiller ? Maybe the 3.5” exchanger will work better along with electric fans maybe. And why not tuning now and gain more HP and let the PCM understand what’s going on there and drop a 180* thermostat to make things better.