[Jonx96]

I have had a fair amount of back and forth about this. But has anyone used meth injection to cool their factory supercharger? I'm not worried about the octane gain. Only worried about cooling.
I know I could use Nitrous but I really don't know if that is the route I want to go. If I did go nitrous I would go with the blower spacers and minimum shot is a 120.

 

[ScLeCo]

Everyone I know has switched to e85 and/or the interchillers.
I know meth was big 10 years ago but I believe there are better options these days.

 

[CPO Super stock]

Meth works well when you can inject it after the forced induction source like a turbo or a procharger.

Water does not compress well so that might be why people do not use it on Hellcats.

 

[motorheadmike]

I am currently using it due to having sh*t gas locally and a IAT/timing sensitive 2018+ HC. Currently on 100% straight meth spraying pre-rotor. It fully evaporates at ambient temps, negating the risk of hydro-locking the supercharger that high concentrations of water could risk. Could. On 91 octane I have yet to see knock using it.

I ran the car at the track with it this past Friday. At one point the DA was almost 4000ft and the car corrected for upto 34% additional fuel (2 stages) without issue on the factory tune.

On a single stage of meth IATs went from 93*F to 82*F over the run, Charge Air Temps (CAT) rose slightly from 124*F to 133*F. Average injection percentage (based on STFT) was 5-10% (it is a progressive kit).

Without meth injection the IATs went from 151*F to 107*F and CATs rose from 140*F to 147*F.

On meth (two stages) and nitrous (25hp shot, activated full on at 7psi) the IATs dropped from 129*F to 94*F, and CATs went from 131*F to 135*F. STFT correction factor was between 34 and 17%, I am not sure how much smaller of a fuel jet I can find? The car picked up 2.5mph and dropped 3 tenths... even with me short shifting 1-2 and 2-3. I'd say the car was responding well to the little bit of pre-rotor injected air and fuel.

This test wasn't as empirical as I would have liked (standardizing/controlling as many variables as possible) due to me having to concentrate on refamiliarizing myself with the car on the drag strip (launching a stick car) on top of making substantial changes over the last year or so. I was still losing about 1.5* of timing to high IATs, I could mitigate this with deliberate cool downs before runs. But, again, I was pressed for time and working on other issues. FWIW, water will offer more cooling, but with the nitrous I do not want to risk not allowing the water to change state.

Overall, I am pleased with the addition of methanol injection.

Anyone else chiming in had better have something more than opinion or anecdotal evidence.

 

[HellcatHellYeah]

I'm such a child, every time I see the title of this thread I think of a HC smoking Meth, got that little pipe in the grill, tires holding it and lighting it up

 

[GNBRETT]

I run Methanol on my Trackhawk and my Redeye as well as my Turbo Mustang and my RS3. Ive been running meth on all my vehicles for the last 20 years. If u dont have access to E85 which most ppl dont then Meth is a good alternative to bump the timing up a little.

There is still no better option than Meth if u dont have access to E85. Nothing will be cheaper and u only use it under WOT.

Its great to cool IAT's.

 

[Jonx96]

Sounds like a lot more positives than I was expecting.
everything I had come across was people just saying it doesn’t work well with a positive displacement blower. I wanted to hear from people who have used it first hand.
is the snow performance (nitrious express) kit what you are running?

 

[Sarna March]

Meth works well when you can inject it after the forced induction source like a turbo or a procharger.

Water does not compress well so that might be why people do not use it on Hellcats.

Even with a ratio of 1:1 of water to fuel injected, the water takes a PUNY amount of volume, so how much it compresses is irrelevant, Hellcat or no.

 

[CPO Super stock]

I used it and loved it in a procharged LS motor... but does not seam to be a lot of use here... I could see pure meth being better than a mix as stated above.
Hence my might be... I should have added a ? mark

 

[motorheadmike]

Sounds like a lot more positives than I was expecting.
everything I had come across was people just saying it doesn’t work well with a positive displacement blower. I wanted to hear from people who have used it first hand.
is the snow performance (nitrious express) kit what you are running?

Snow stage 3... pretty sure it is a stage 3? This one:

The green button is the test/prime button for the meth, the blue one is for the nitrous purge. Pew pew!

 

[Speedy]

I run water/meth injection on a roots supercharged 2002 4Runner. In that application it works wonderfully. The supercharger is NON intercooled and I'm pushing it to 11psi so it was getting rather warm. The water/meth is injected via the intake tube ahead of the throttle body using the washer tank as the reservoir. In the old Toyota I have no real way to tune it other than a piggy back controller that can only retard timing. Without the water/meth injection I was having to pull about 7-8 deg of timing at WOT seeing a max of 13-14 deg. After adding water/meth injection I was able to zero out the timing retard and just let the factory PCM do it's thing and will now see 19-21 deg of timing depending on weather conditions. It made a huge difference. It took me a bit to find the sweet spot of injector nozzle size to avoid bogging at lower RPM and keeping AFR in the right spot at upper RPM. The kit I used is progressive but with a positive displacement supercharger it is only kind of progressive since max boost is achieved so early in the RPM range.

The big question is can you inject enough water/meth to influence ACT before the Hellcat becomes unhappy.

As you know the Hellcat is wide band all the time and methanol is a fuel. The widebands will see that extra fuel and start to trim fueling to compensate. You'd have to play with that to see where the sweet spot is. Anything over like 25% trim either way usually sets a CEL eventually. On the setups I've worked with you want about a point reduction in AFR as a general rule of thumb to inject enough water/meth to make a difference. With the Hellcat trimming fuel it'll be a little more tricky to dial in. I'd personally be worried about a failure of some kind and the car having become reliant on the meth/injection. I'm on my 3rd meth injection pump in the 4Runner in 5 years. They seem to fail so often I've learned to rebuild them myself. Mine could have been getting wet or something but they're supposed to be weather resistant. I've added a rubber boot to my current one and so far so good. For the Hellcat you should consider a trunk mounted solution I think to keep it protected. Maybe one that includes a tank. The pump on my 4Runner is mounted behind the front bumper and probably sees some water when it rains.

 

[GNBRETT]

Water is a better coolant which is why its a 50/50 mix. If ur looking for more power from it then run staight M1 (Methanol) and use it as octane. Pure Meth as a coolant is not as effective as Boost-Juice but M1 has a higher octane level so for more power its a better alternative.

In the Grand National world Methanol is used 100% of the time as fuel but in the GN world it has to be used as fuel cause otherwise u wont make any power.

But one thing to consider when using straight Methanol is the rotors in ur blower dont really care for it so the 50/50 mix is usually recommended but Ive seen dudes run stright Methanol and have no issues.

And it doesnt matter if u buy the Snow kit, The AEM kit or Julios kit they all use the same pump Unless u upgrade to a better pump like Julio sells. ALL pumps should be replaced YEARLY and u should get the insulated sleeve that Julio sells as well that fits right around the pump.

And as far a failing pump goes AEM sells a guage that will dump boost or timing if the pump fails. Its a great fail safe to have if ur tuned to it.

I used it and loved it in a procharged LS motor... but does not seam to be a lot of use here... I could see pure meth being better than a mix as stated above.
Hence my might be... I should have added a ? mark

 

[Speedy]

How does the AEM fail safe dump boost on a Hellcat? The water/meth system I have has fail safe options as well but none of them would work on my 4Runner with the vacuum actuated bypass valve without doing something custom with a solenoid which violates my KISS rule

 

[Jonx96]

Sounding like this may be something I add to compare data with and without. May have to wait a few weeks with a few other things going on. If I end up going this route I will report back.

 

[moparjim]

I ran the car at the track with it this past Friday. At one point the DA was almost 4000ft

Hey Mike it was a whopping 1700' DA at the track here on Friday. 😉
I have missed our track visits. Take care bud.

 

[Speedy]

These may help some running meth injection. I found in my case the bearing in the pump was siezing. The bearings cost about $3 and are pretty easy to replace. I rebuilt my last one.

 

[GNBRETT]

lol KISS rule I love it..... It moniters the entire flow curve so its really accurate.

https://www.aemelectronics.com/arti...ely-monitors-entire-flow-curve-prevent-engine

How does the AEM fail safe dump boost on a Hellcat? The water/meth system I have has fail safe options as well but none of them would work on my 4Runner with the vacuum actuated bypass valve without doing something custom with a solenoid which violates my KISS rule

 

[Speedy]

So that failsafe is a ground and a +12V output which is what the one on my 4Runner has as well. I'm still not clear how it would work on a Hellcat though 🤷‍♂️ What do you ground or give +12V to that would drop boost, pull timing, or both? Maybe send the car to limp mode perhaps, but not sure that's desirable either?

 

[GNBRETT]

Its only necessary if ur tuning to Methanol. I dont have one on any of my cars cause im not tuning to it. I use to have one on my Grand National but thats because we tune to Methanol or u dont make any power but if ur not tuned to it then the computer will compensate if u run out.

Ive run out on my Mustang a few times and had no bearing on anything cause im not tuned to it. U run a little more timing and ur lower ur IAT's. thats all.

So that failsafe is a ground and a +12V output which is what the one on my 4Runner has as well. I'm still not clear how it would work on a Hellcat though 🤷‍♂️ What do you ground or give +12V to that would drop boost, pull timing, or both? Maybe send the car to limp mode perhaps, but not sure that's desirable either?

 

[coanan]

Nice thing about the Smoothboost controller I'm using on my Whipple, (non Hellcat) is, it has a kill option wire, ground it and bypass goes full open. I have that wired into a fuel pressure switch.

Does the HC bypass need a signal both ways to open and close? if not, find the signal wire that closes bypass and splice in a pressure switch, when pressure is lost it opens circuit??