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Challenger SRT Hellcat “Go Mango Orange”
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That's where I wound up too. I ordered my car so I was paying attention to $$ and a $7K option just was a bridge too far. Now If I was Jay Leno, and already had 100 collector cars, then hell I would go for the WB and Redeye options. What the heck!
Let’s get one thing clear, I am a Mopar nut. I don’t even want to tell people how many Mopars I have and bought throughout the years I never been one to flaunt I am strictly in love with the engineering and performance of these vehicles.
That being said Dodge took a lot of folks to the bank with the WB with very little effort resulting in a huge profit and hey, more power to them, if it is in fact a upgrade from the previous model you should pay more, but 7k more? Really, 7k. Same skeleton, same engineering, slower top end idk. The upgrades are more suited for road course in my opinion and even in that department it would have a minuscule edge over the NB. Simply put, for 7k I can do a whole lot more than slapping some flares and slightly wider tires on my Hellcat.
 

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Challenger SRT Hellcat
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I believe I’ve struck a happy medium with the Lil’ Devil Flares. I like the wide bodied cars but bought the standard a few years back and got it for a great price. Initially I didn’t care for the add on aftermarket flares because I questioned their functionality, especially for the 1600+ Phillips asks for a color matched set. I met with one of our local members who really hooked me up with a set he didn’t care, for thanks again Cool. They do provide a wider tire/rim to be mounted. I haven’t stretched the limit just yet, having 11’s on the rear and 9.5’s up front.
562092
 

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2020 Challenger Hellcat
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Same deal, I was reading today, someone said their regular body 707 hp beats all Redeyes with more HP and torque, because the new units can’t handle the torque. What are we saying here?
Comparing separate runs on the track leaves a lot of unspoken science on the table. Temperatures/pressure can affect final horsepower by up to 20% . But on the street, power means jack crap once you reach a certain threshold. That tends to be around 650hp or (with torque at least around 600). That's because street surfaces are highly irregular... especially down here in FL where they mix the asphalt with oyster shell. Putting power to the pavement in a high torque car is an art form and an exercise in patience.

So, let's look at a gross example and compare a Demon to a 707/717hp narrow body. On paper, the Demon has more torque, more power, with all the deletes, less weight. It has bigger tires, a trans brake, and its purposely built for a straight line race, through and through. But, almost none of that will translate into street performance. You can't use the trans brake and an aggressive launch on the street with 770 lb. ft of torque. On a base Hellcat, if launch control is used, 1,200 - 1,400rpm seems to provide the best 0-60. With the Demon having even more torque than the base 'Cat, it can't even launch at that rate. I've driven Demons quite a bit, and the best times on the street I've personally seen were had by starting in 2nd gear and slap it into auto after I bump start it into a roll.

Torque is the enemy of a big power car on the street. Unless you plan on doing a rolling start at 60mph, which isn't racing in my mind. The Demon/Redeye's primary benefit over the lesser Hellcats is their holeshot ability. On a roll, they don't perform too much better due to their gearing. But without that monster holeshot, they have no inherent "can't touch me" advantages. That's where the street takes over.

With higher torque cars, they lose street traction relative to their torque rating. Thus, to compensate, you need bigger tires/wheels. But, on an irregular surface, this is not a given advantage either. This torque effect doesn't occur at just launch, but at every gear shift. Back to the Demon/Redeye, they routinely cannot stay in near or at WOT for the first 4 gears on the street. Thus, they can't put the full horsepower to the pavement and their power advantage goes out the window. Gear shifts can also cause a need for pedaling, which you won't see in the SRT after the 1st/2nd shift on most surfaces.

In the end, it will come down to the successful application of traction. That's because a Demon at 50% horsepower is running about as fast as a 392 until it gets out of 3rd gear. Redeye is very similar. The 717 Hellcat with almost 100 less torque can put the full 717hp down at the top of 2nd... which is more than enough to pull a good bit.

I'm going to bold this, because it's important: This does not mean the Hellcat will win every race.

The street is unpredictable and it takes a LOT more skill to put a big power street car down a set distance than it does at the track. Sometimes the Demon/Redeyes will hook fairly well on the street... and if they do, the Hellcat is toast. Surface quality is a huge factor. But routinely, too much torque makes for a much more difficult car to handle on the street. It takes a better driver to manage it, and even then, sometimes the street simply can't offer enough traction to USE the bigger car.

Thus, the NB Hellcat has a nice mix of lower weight, less drag, and a more manageable torque curve that allows a more predictable application of power across a more broad powerband. A Widebody is similar, but with added weight and aero resistance will slow it compared to the standard Hellcat. Yes, it may get marginally better traction, but those larger wheels and tires... they add more weight which offsets what little benefit they give.

In any of these situations, the driver will make the difference. A great driver in a Demon will beat a rube in pretty much anything. But assuming equal skill levels, you have to recognize that there's proper tools for certain jobs... and the Demon/Redeye's are tools for track work. The SRT Hellcat models are much more at home on the street.
 

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Challenger SRT Hellcat Widebody
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My regular body with little tires/narrow wheels 3.5 seconds to 60. My Widebody with much bigger tires/wide wheels 3.3 seconds to 60. Both on the street. I ran an 11.3 quarter with the regular one on the same street the Widebody did 11.0 seconds.

Now how is a regular body with skinny tires and more narrow wheels better again?

Same deal, I was reading today, someone said their regular body 707 hp beats all Redeyes with more HP and torque, because the new units can’t handle the torque. What are we saying here?
People a rife with confirmation bias these days... that is all that is being said.

My widebody does not have acceleration issues - other than the monkey rowing the gears (but that is a whole other thread).
 

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Challenger SRT Hellcat Widebody
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Comparing separate runs on the track leaves a lot of unspoken science on the table. Temperatures/pressure can affect final horsepower by up to 20% . But on the street, power means jack crap once you reach a certain threshold. That tends to be around 650hp or (with torque at least around 600). That's because street surfaces are highly irregular... especially down here in FL where they mix the asphalt with oyster shell. Putting power to the pavement in a high torque car is an art form and an exercise in patience.

So, let's look at a gross example and compare a Demon to a 707/717hp narrow body. On paper, the Demon has more torque, more power, with all the deletes, less weight. It has bigger tires, a trans brake, and its purposely built for a straight line race, through and through. But, almost none of that will translate into street performance. You can't use the trans brake and an aggressive launch on the street with 770 lb. ft of torque. On a base Hellcat, if launch control is used, 1,200 - 1,400rpm seems to provide the best 0-60. With the Demon having even more torque than the base 'Cat, it can't even launch at that rate. I've driven Demons quite a bit, and the best times on the street I've personally seen were had by starting in 2nd gear and slap it into auto after I bump start it into a roll.

Torque is the enemy of a big power car on the street. Unless you plan on doing a rolling start at 60mph, which isn't racing in my mind. The Demon/Redeye's primary benefit over the lesser Hellcats is their holeshot ability. On a roll, they don't perform too much better due to their gearing. But without that monster holeshot, they have no inherent "can't touch me" advantages. That's where the street takes over.

With higher torque cars, they lose street traction relative to their torque rating. Thus, to compensate, you need bigger tires/wheels. But, on an irregular surface, this is not a given advantage either. This torque effect doesn't occur at just launch, but at every gear shift. Back to the Demon/Redeye, they routinely cannot stay in near or at WOT for the first 4 gears on the street. Thus, they can't put the full horsepower to the pavement and their power advantage goes out the window. Gear shifts can also cause a need for pedaling, which you won't see in the SRT after the 1st/2nd shift on most surfaces.

In the end, it will come down to the successful application of traction. That's because a Demon at 50% horsepower is running about as fast as a 392 until it gets out of 3rd gear. Redeye is very similar. The 717 Hellcat with almost 100 less torque can put the full 717hp down at the top of 2nd... which is more than enough to pull a good bit.

I'm going to bold this, because it's important: This does not mean the Hellcat will win every race.

The street is unpredictable and it takes a LOT more skill to put a big power street car down a set distance than it does at the track. Sometimes the Demon/Redeyes will hook fairly well on the street... and if they do, the Hellcat is toast. Surface quality is a huge factor. But routinely, too much torque makes for a much more difficult car to handle on the street. It takes a better driver to manage it, and even then, sometimes the street simply can't offer enough traction to USE the bigger car.

Thus, the NB Hellcat has a nice mix of lower weight, less drag, and a more manageable torque curve that allows a more predictable application of power across a more broad powerband. A Widebody is similar, but with added weight and aero resistance will slow it compared to the standard Hellcat. Yes, it may get marginally better traction, but those larger wheels and tires... they add more weight which offsets what little benefit they give.

In any of these situations, the driver will make the difference. A great driver in a Demon will beat a rube in pretty much anything. But assuming equal skill levels, you have to recognize that there's proper tools for certain jobs... and the Demon/Redeye's are tools for track work. The SRT Hellcat models are much more at home on the street.
Okay, now eliminate your bias and redo the whole thing on a drag strip with controlled conditions. Because no sensible person is doing what you just described on the street. A 1-2 pull stop light to stop light maybe - but "Mexico runs" are childish and irresponsible.
 

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My example is even better on a 1-2 stop light run because the Demon/Redeye can't use but maybe a 1/3 of their power in the first 200ft on the street.

I haven't honest to God street raced in 20 years. And yes, it is irresponsible and illegal. I'm not biased, I own faster cars than these and I used to drive IHRA Top Fuel and NHRA Pro Stock back in the 1990s... so this isn't my biased opinion. I've raced all types of cars in my 40+ years. I've long since hung up that cap, but I still like to daily a street monster :)

But to answer your question, the NB/Widebody issue on a prepped track, all things being equal, is almost a total wash. If they both have to run stock tires, the NB cat weighs less and the WB has a little bit wider radial... which is not much better than a 275 on the same prepped surface. A little bit better, but it also weighs a little bit more. Thus, the times are going to be about the same.
 

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Challenger SRT Hellcat “Go Mango Orange”
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I believe I’ve struck a happy medium with the Lil’ Devil Flares. I like the wide bodied cars but bought the standard a few years back and got it for a great price. Initially I didn’t care for the add on aftermarket flares because I questioned their functionality, especially for the 1600+ Phillips asks for a color matched set. I met with one of our local members who really hooked me up with a set he didn’t care, for thanks again Cool. They do provide a wider tire/rim to be mounted. I haven’t stretched the limit just yet, having 11’s on the rear and 9.5’s up front.
View attachment 562092
Looks awesome. Very subtle.
 

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My example is even better on a 1-2 stop light run because the Demon/Redeye can't use but maybe a 1/3 of their power in the first 200ft on the street.

I haven't honest to God street raced in 20 years. And yes, it is irresponsible and illegal. I'm not biased, I own faster cars than these and I used to drive IHRA Top Fuel and NHRA Pro Stock back in the 1990s... so this isn't my biased opinion. I've raced all types of cars in my 40+ years. I've long since hung up that cap, but I still like to daily a street monster :)

But to answer your question, the NB/Widebody issue on a prepped track, all things being equal, is almost a total wash. If they both have to run stock tires, the NB cat weighs less and the WB has a little bit wider radial... which is not much better than a 275 on the same prepped surface. A little bit better, but it also weighs a little bit more. Thus, the times are going to be about the same.
 

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Okay, now eliminate your bias and redo the whole thing on a drag strip with controlled conditions. Because no sensible person is doing what you just described on the street. A 1-2 pull stop light to stop light maybe - but "Mexico runs" are childish and irresponsible.
 

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Oh man, now I feel like I was duped by Dodge....I feel horrible for paying the extra for the WB........NOT!!!!

C'mon everyone. If you hate the looks of the WB's, I get it and I'm sure everyone is fine with that. I like all Challengers, standard or WB. - I've owned both in Hellcat form and love both.

If you've ever test driven a WB after owning a standard, you would know right away that the WB package is much more than just plastic flares and wider tires. They handle differently, the suspensions are tuned differently, and the WB's seem much more sure-footed and planted on the street....it makes a bigger difference on any 700+ hp car.

As for the standard body being better for drag racing....try to find a standard body Demon. They're all WB's and don't seem to do too bad on the strip in stock form.
I never said I hate the WB’s. I think they look good. I just don’t think the difference matches the price. The sole purpose of the flares is to make the car and tires appear seamless for lack of better terms. Correct me if I’m wrong but is it the wider tires that make the car handle better NOT the flares correct? Secondly, can I put wider tires on a NB? Let that soak in for a minute....
 

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I never said I hate the WB’s. I think they look good. I just don’t think the difference matches the price. The sole purpose of the flares is to make the car and tires appear seamless for lack of better terms. Correct me if I’m wrong but is it the wider tires that make the car handle better NOT the flares correct? Secondly, can I put wider tires on a NB? Let that soak in for a minute....
No you can't put 12 inch wheels on a nb, the narrow body redeye is the best example for power doesn't mean sh*t unless you can put it down.

Rwd needs more meat even with the base hellcat.

And for what it's worth the m5 is dropping 2.8 0-60 times on the street on 275/285s..... it kills demons and bikes from a dig because of how efficiently it puts down power.

But that's just my experience, more rubber = better for the hc, I was running 305s on the 2017 nb charger hc, once I pick up the wb or possibly redeye I'll definitely drop 12 inch wheels on the rear and circa 345s
 

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No you can't put 12 inch wheels on a nb, the narrow body redeye is the best example for power doesn't mean sh*t unless you can put it down.

Rwd needs more meat even with the base hellcat.

And for what it's worth the m5 is dropping 2.8 0-60 times on the street on 275/285s..... it kills demons and bikes from a dig because of how efficiently it puts down power.

But that's just my experience, more rubber = better for the hc, I was running 305s on the 2017 nb charger hc, once I pick up the wb or possibly redeye I'll definitely drop 12 inch wheels on the rear and circa 345s
Sure, they need more meat, but I don't think you can get enough meat on the street with a car that has close to or more than 700 lb ft of torque. IMO, anything wider than an 11" on a 305 is going to be an expensive exercise in diminished returns. Improving the driver mod is free.
 

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No you can't put 12 inch wheels on a nb, the narrow body redeye is the best example for power doesn't mean sh*t unless you can put it down.

Rwd needs more meat even with the base hellcat.

And for what it's worth the m5 is dropping 2.8 0-60 times on the street on 275/285s..... it kills demons and bikes from a dig because of how efficiently it puts down power.

But that's just my experience, more rubber = better for the hc, I was running 305s on the 2017 nb charger hc, once I pick up the wb or possibly redeye I'll definitely drop 12 inch wheels on the rear and circa 345s
My point is I can run 11 inchers on a NB just like the WB...period. I’m I wrong? Don’t matter how you slice it and dice it. 315/35/R20’s 11 inches wide on a Charger NB all day from sun up to sun down No Rub. Period.
 

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My point is I can run 11 inchers on a NB just like the WB...period. I’m I wrong? Don’t matter how you slice it and dice it. 315/35/R20’s 11 inches wide on a Charger NB all day from sun up to sun down No Rub. Period.
One thing we both can agree on is power don’t mean $hit if you can’t put the power down and a bigger contact patch is a clear advantage. However that’s NOT my argument....3 Hellcats, 2 392’s, 1 6.1 SRT, 2 5.7’s, 1 2015 SRT Jeep and a bunch of tires I am all too familiar with how these cars put down power. I feel like I go through tires more than a nascar racer. I ran 11 inchers on my Silver Charger 305 Nitto 555r’s and I noticed a difference. I’d imagine the WB would feel the same. To be honest I shouldn’t have a dog in the fight because to be honest I have yet to drive one as of yet. I’m afraid for 1 reason, if I drive it I might end up buying it just to say I have the newest thing.
 

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One thing we both can agree on is power don’t mean $hit if you can’t put the power down and a bigger contact patch is a clear advantage. However that’s NOT my argument....3 Hellcats, 2 392’s, 1 6.1 SRT, 2 5.7’s, 1 2015 SRT Jeep and a bunch of tires I am all too familiar with how these cars put down power. I feel like I go through tires more than a nascar racer. I ran 11 inchers on my Silver Charger 305 Nitto 555r’s and I noticed a difference. I’d imagine the WB would feel the same. To be honest I shouldn’t have a dog in the fight because to be honest I have yet to drive one as of yet. I’m afraid for 1 reason, if I drive it I might end up buying it just to say I have the newest thing.
You know what cars and women have in common right?

They're best when they are the newest model 😝😝
 

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Challenger SRT Redeye
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Comparing separate runs on the track leaves a lot of unspoken science on the table. Temperatures/pressure can affect final horsepower by up to 20% . But on the street, power means jack crap once you reach a certain threshold. That tends to be around 650hp or (with torque at least around 600). That's because street surfaces are highly irregular... especially down here in FL where they mix the asphalt with oyster shell. Putting power to the pavement in a high torque car is an art form and an exercise in patience.

So, let's look at a gross example and compare a Demon to a 707/717hp narrow body. On paper, the Demon has more torque, more power, with all the deletes, less weight. It has bigger tires, a trans brake, and its purposely built for a straight line race, through and through. But, almost none of that will translate into street performance. You can't use the trans brake and an aggressive launch on the street with 770 lb. ft of torque. On a base Hellcat, if launch control is used, 1,200 - 1,400rpm seems to provide the best 0-60. With the Demon having even more torque than the base 'Cat, it can't even launch at that rate. I've driven Demons quite a bit, and the best times on the street I've personally seen were had by starting in 2nd gear and slap it into auto after I bump start it into a roll.

Torque is the enemy of a big power car on the street. Unless you plan on doing a rolling start at 60mph, which isn't racing in my mind. The Demon/Redeye's primary benefit over the lesser Hellcats is their holeshot ability. On a roll, they don't perform too much better due to their gearing. But without that monster holeshot, they have no inherent "can't touch me" advantages. That's where the street takes over.

With higher torque cars, they lose street traction relative to their torque rating. Thus, to compensate, you need bigger tires/wheels. But, on an irregular surface, this is not a given advantage either. This torque effect doesn't occur at just launch, but at every gear shift. Back to the Demon/Redeye, they routinely cannot stay in near or at WOT for the first 4 gears on the street. Thus, they can't put the full horsepower to the pavement and their power advantage goes out the window. Gear shifts can also cause a need for pedaling, which you won't see in the SRT after the 1st/2nd shift on most surfaces.

In the end, it will come down to the successful application of traction. That's because a Demon at 50% horsepower is running about as fast as a 392 until it gets out of 3rd gear. Redeye is very similar. The 717 Hellcat with almost 100 less torque can put the full 717hp down at the top of 2nd... which is more than enough to pull a good bit.

I'm going to bold this, because it's important: This does not mean the Hellcat will win every race.

The street is unpredictable and it takes a LOT more skill to put a big power street car down a set distance than it does at the track. Sometimes the Demon/Redeyes will hook fairly well on the street... and if they do, the Hellcat is toast. Surface quality is a huge factor. But routinely, too much torque makes for a much more difficult car to handle on the street. It takes a better driver to manage it, and even then, sometimes the street simply can't offer enough traction to USE the bigger car.

Thus, the NB Hellcat has a nice mix of lower weight, less drag, and a more manageable torque curve that allows a more predictable application of power across a more broad powerband. A Widebody is similar, but with added weight and aero resistance will slow it compared to the standard Hellcat. Yes, it may get marginally better traction, but those larger wheels and tires... they add more weight which offsets what little benefit they give.

In any of these situations, the driver will make the difference. A great driver in a Demon will beat a rube in pretty much anything. But assuming equal skill levels, you have to recognize that there's proper tools for certain jobs... and the Demon/Redeye's are tools for track work. The SRT Hellcat models are much more at home on the street.
Hint: modulate the first four gears with a calibrated right foot and an experienced human brain and a few good senses as necessary. My foot is to the floor somewhere BTW 2-3 FYI. Please bring your regular body up here so I can demonstrate that little trick for ya. Oh, and please continue to use your Launch Control as described. I have never pressed that button or the line lock on my WB yet!
 

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I never had a narrow body Challenger but I had a Charger cat on stock 275s for a minute and the handling in the Widebody is definitely different. I can tell you the Charger felt more balanced. The Widebody does tramline a helluva lot more with the huge 305s in the front.
 
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