SRT Hellcat Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this months Ride of the Month Challenge!
61 - 75 of 75 Posts

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat “Go Mango Orange”
Joined
·
49 Posts
Hint: modulate the first four gears with a calibrated right foot and an experienced human brain and a few good senses as necessary. My foot is to the floor somewhere BTW 2-3 FYI. Please bring your regular body up here so I can demonstrate that little trick for ya. Oh, and please continue to use your Launch Control as described. I have never pressed that button or the line lock on my WB yet!
Great illustration.
 

·
Registered
2020 Challenger Hellcat
Joined
·
879 Posts
Hint: modulate the first four gears with a calibrated right foot and an experienced human brain and a few good senses as necessary. My foot is to the floor somewhere BTW 2-3 FYI. Please bring your regular body up here so I can demonstrate that little trick for ya. Oh, and please continue to use your Launch Control as described. I have never pressed that button or the line lock on my WB yet!
And as I said, the SRT Hellcat meeds to modulate less, has a wider applicable power and at street speeds and has more of an advantage in this scenario as well.

And it isn’t just me saying this, but Road & Track, Motor Trend, Car & Driver and even Jalopnik’s road test reviews have noted the faster street times from 0-60 and 60-100 for the base model Hellcat.
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat Widebody
Joined
·
959 Posts
My example is even better on a 1-2 stop light run because the Demon/Redeye can't use but maybe a 1/3 of their power in the first 200ft on the street.

I haven't honest to God street raced in 20 years. And yes, it is irresponsible and illegal. I'm not biased, I own faster cars than these and I used to drive IHRA Top Fuel and NHRA Pro Stock back in the 1990s... so this isn't my biased opinion. I've raced all types of cars in my 40+ years. I've long since hung up that cap, but I still like to daily a street monster :)

But to answer your question, the NB/Widebody issue on a prepped track, all things being equal, is almost a total wash. If they both have to run stock tires, the NB cat weighs less and the WB has a little bit wider radial... which is not much better than a 275 on the same prepped surface. A little bit better, but it also weighs a little bit more. Thus, the times are going to be about the same.
Just to be clear: I am not calling your capabilities or experience into question. I simply want to avoid people from thinking that acceleration runs on the street are a balanced metric of performance. Hence my highlighting the use of controlled conditions.

Stock for stock on the track, with or without a tire, is going to come down to the driver mod. However, there is no denying that more tire isn't going to suggest a higher threshold for maintaining traction and improving acceleration. These cars are far less susceptible to unsprung mass, rotational mass, and aerodynamic losses in the quarter mile than most want to believe. Is it a factor? Absolutely. But with 600+ ft/lbs of torque from idle to redline a few pounds here or there or some extra body work isn't going to be a show stopper.

And yes, the widebody handles something wicked... I have a whole thread on that.
 

·
Registered
2020 Challenger Hellcat
Joined
·
879 Posts
Just to be clear: I am not calling your capabilities or experience into question. I simply want to avoid people from thinking that acceleration runs on the street are a balanced metric of performance. Hence my highlighting the use of controlled conditions.

Stock for stock on the track, with or without a tire, is going to come down to the driver mod. However, there is no denying that more tire isn't going to suggest a higher threshold for maintaining traction and improving acceleration. These cars are far less susceptible to unsprung mass, rotational mass, and aerodynamic losses in the quarter mile than most want to believe. Is it a factor? Absolutely. But with 600+ ft/lbs of torque from idle to redline a few pounds here or there or some extra body work isn't going to be a show stopper.

And yes, the widebody handles something wicked... I have a whole thread on that.
On the track, my point is that there are less environmental variables that affect the application of torque on the road surface. On the street, this is a huge factor as to why the Redeyes and Demons can't use their full potential. Driver mod is one thing, but high torque on an unprepped street surface is a liability that can't be overcome with a good driver, only managed.

You're right, the tire and unsprung mass isn't a huge factor, but application of torque is. When you have both cars that can easily produce more torque than the tires+road surface can handle, the car with the lesser torque value is naturally going to require less "driver mod" to get the car down the road. The best driver in the world can't drive what physics won't allow.

I'm sure we've all seen it happen. A bolt-on Mustang with 500hp beats a Hellcat on YouTube. It isn't because the Mustang is faster. People might say the Hellcat driver can't drive... but what generally happens is that the Mustang could hard launch from a dig and the road wouldn't let the Hellcat do the same. From the factory, until the most recent 2020 models, the Mustang and Hellcat had the same rear tire, right down to the width and manufacturer. PP Mustangs always ran 19" x 9.5", where most Hellcats come with 20", both in the 275/40 variety. The problem is the SRT's torque rating and need to launch at a much reduced power output to bring the torque into acceptable levels to mitigate wheel slip. On the street, this is not ideal, as lower powered cars can hole shot big power cars all day long... then they have to run them down. The even bigger powered Redeyes and Demons are at a greater disadvantage here. This is all before the driver mod comes into play. There is no escaping it.

On the track, this is completely reversed. Hole shots for days and you'd never see the other guy if they came out with a factory 500hp Mustang against a Hellcat of any variety (provided competent drivers and tires). Similarly, a NB SRT Hellcat like mine should be chewed up and spit out by a Demon or a Redeye.

Like a bunch of old guys like to say though, "The street is the great equalizer."
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat “Go Mango Orange”
Joined
·
49 Posts
Just to be clear: I am not calling your capabilities or experience into question. I simply want to avoid people from thinking that acceleration runs on the street are a balanced metric of performance. Hence my highlighting the use of controlled conditions.

Stock for stock on the track, with or without a tire, is going to come down to the driver mod. However, there is no denying that more tire isn't going to suggest a higher threshold for maintaining traction and improving acceleration. These cars are far less susceptible to unsprung mass, rotational mass, and aerodynamic losses in the quarter mile than most want to believe. Is it a factor? Absolutely. But with 600+ ft/lbs of torque from idle to redline a few pounds here or there or some extra body work isn't going to be a show stopper.

And yes, the widebody handles something wicked... I have a whole thread on that.
Respect. Great points.
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat Widebody
Joined
·
959 Posts
On the track, my point is that there are less environmental variables that affect the application of torque on the road surface. On the street, this is a huge factor as to why the Redeyes and Demons can't use their full potential. Driver mod is one thing, but high torque on an unprepped street surface is a liability that can't be overcome with a good driver, only managed.

You're right, the tire and unsprung mass isn't a huge factor, but application of torque is. When you have both cars that can easily produce more torque than the tires+road surface can handle, the car with the lesser torque value is naturally going to require less "driver mod" to get the car down the road. The best driver in the world can't drive what physics won't allow.

I'm sure we've all seen it happen. A bolt-on Mustang with 500hp beats a Hellcat on YouTube. It isn't because the Mustang is faster. People might say the Hellcat driver can't drive... but what generally happens is that the Mustang could hard launch from a dig and the road wouldn't let the Hellcat do the same. From the factory, until the most recent 2020 models, the Mustang and Hellcat had the same rear tire, right down to the width and manufacturer. PP Mustangs always ran 19" x 9.5", where most Hellcats come with 20", both in the 275/40 variety. The problem is the SRT's torque rating and need to launch at a much reduced power output to bring the torque into acceptable levels to mitigate wheel slip. On the street, this is not ideal, as lower powered cars can hole shot big power cars all day long... then they have to run them down. The even bigger powered Redeyes and Demons are at a greater disadvantage here. This is all before the driver mod comes into play. There is no escaping it.

On the track, this is completely reversed. Hole shots for days and you'd never see the other guy if they came out with a factory 500hp Mustang against a Hellcat of any variety (provided competent drivers and tires). Similarly, a NB SRT Hellcat like mine should be chewed up and spit out by a Demon or a Redeye.

Like a bunch of old guys like to say though, "The street is the great equalizer."
Then, there are three options open to us for optimal street performance:

1. Drive a slow car fast (aka. buy a Miata the torqueless wonder that it is and floor it everywhere);
2. Drive a fast car slow (modulate the go pedal, or get a boost controller and ramp the power in); or
3. Get a heavy higher powered AWD vehicle (Teslas or Trackhawks for days).

'cause spinnin' ain't winnin'!
 

·
Registered
2020 Challenger Hellcat
Joined
·
879 Posts
If you want to see some fun, look at what an older Audi TT Quatro can do with some really inexpensive bolt-ons. 10s cars.
 

·
Premium Member
Challenger SRT Redeye
Joined
·
8,468 Posts
I’ll just put the Redeye in 500 hp mode. Damn waste of money anyway. It should accelerate better that way?
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat
Joined
·
154 Posts
I believe I’ve struck a happy medium with the Lil’ Devil Flares. I like the wide bodied cars but bought the standard a few years back and got it for a great price. Initially I didn’t care for the add on aftermarket flares because I questioned their functionality, especially for the 1600+ Phillips asks for a color matched set. I met with one of our local members who really hooked me up with a set he didn’t care, for thanks again Cool. They do provide a wider tire/rim to be mounted. I haven’t stretched the limit just yet, having 11’s on the rear and 9.5’s up front.


I'm looking to get 11's on the rear on my regular body Challenger. What type of tire and size are you running in the rear? It looks good back there.
View attachment 562092
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
As the title says...

For those that traded their narrow bodies Challengers in and got the Wide Body models....how big of a difference in handling and harshness in ride when suspension in normal (street) mode?

I can already assume traction is improved with the slightly bigger tires all around. I only found ONE person during the power tour that had the NB and traded in for a new WB. He said his new WB drives like a totally different car and was well worth the extra coin. What do you say?
I have had both--tires make a big diff--but I can't attribute anything else to the WB.. but be careful with the WB in tight places..
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat
Joined
·
182 Posts
I prefer the standard body. The WB looks like a bolt on mod afterthought versus an integrated part of the body.

Just my opinion, don’t be hatin’……LOL
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #73 ·
Just my opinion, don’t be hatin’……LOL
- You first......

3 year old post from the past! I ended up buying my '19 PCP WB RE about one month after I started this post. I see a few others that threw some hate on the WB did the same!! Trust me, I hated trading in my Jazz Blue '15 HC that I ordered new back then....it was an awesome car that the dealer had no problem selling one week after I traded it in. I REALLY wished I could have afforded to keep both actually.

So far the '19 RE has been pretty much flawless but I've noticed some differences. I believe some of the differences are just differences between a HC and RE regardless whether either is a WB or not.

- The factory tuning between my old '15 HC and RE seems a bit different, and is most apparent at cold startup. The way the RE starts and idles when cold is much smoother than my '15 HC was. I can only attribute that to differences between older and newer tuning. - At least cold start tuning.

-The WB seems just a little more sure-footed on the street when accelerating from a stop. Either car will blow off the tires if you just tromp the pedal, but if you control your right foot and gradually lay into it, the rear end of the RE doesn't "wag" or sway while accelerating nearly as much as my '15 did....but it pulls just as hard -if not harder. This also translates to overall handling on the street around the twisties even though neither would compete with something like a C8. Again, I'm certain I've read somewhere that suspension tuning is a little different between the NB's and WB's....along with slightly wider tires on the WB.

The torque convertor seems a lot looser in the RE....seems to take a little more pedal to get it going from a stop before it gets moving. - Or I have a transmission issue on the horizon....hope not. Seems to tighten up a bit as everything warms up.

I'll end my comments on this post like I began it. I love both the NB and WB Challengers. Some don't think the extra cost of a WB is worth it.......just like others believe the extra cost of a RE isn't worth it over a HC. To each their own...both great cars.
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat
Joined
·
182 Posts
- You first......

3 year old post from the past! I ended up buying my '19 PCP WB RE about one month after I started this post.
I figured you’d had it long enough that I could necro the conversation and see which way you went and if you were happy going that way.

I’m like you, I like any Challenger with a badge as the fender flares do not take off horsepower…. 👍👍
 
61 - 75 of 75 Posts
Top