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In all fairness, X is a highly skilled racer and makes good use of his A8, just the A8 is not the best choice for everyone.
And I'm not dogging the M6 drivers. Just that one guy.

As I've mentioned before, I drove nothing but manuals from the time I was a 10yr old in a Jr. Dragster until about 41 years of age. Never once did I own an automatic vehicle of any kind. That changed when I bought my 2018 T/A 392. It had all the options I wanted, looked gorgeous, but had what I called a "granny tranny." The A8 8HP70. The new car manager there is a personal friend of mine and he said, "Look. I want you to drive this car. When you get in, put it in drive, then tilt the stick to the left. Pull down to downshift, push up to upshift." I said whatever, took the keys and hit the road.

I babied it until I was out of eyeshot of the dealership (they let me go by myself). I caught a light without much traffic around and put the car in sport mode. Light turned green and I launched it (poorly, too much gas), burned out a bit and shifted at about 45mph into 2nd. That single shift changed my life. It shifted so hard that it not only barked the tires, but it caused the car to get a little loose and wag the tail midway through 2nd gear. I ended up driving another 5 miles or so just upshifting and downshifting... amazed at how quick the shifts were. On the way back I played with the transmission by slamming it into the lowest gear at speed to see how well the car could cruise at 60, but enter kill mode if the need should ever arise.

Needless to say, I was hooked and pretty much threw my money at them. That was the best transmission I'd driven in 30 years. And the Hellcat's is even better :) I recognize the draw that is a manual, but those of us who "drive" the A8, aren't putting it in drive and pressing down further to toggle into a passing gear. The paddles and the autostick do the same thing, but the autostick gives that manual feeling. There's just no fishing for gears and zero chance of a mis-shift. We've all lined up against a Corvette or some such in the wild, got the adrenaline up and either shifted too late or missed a 2nd-3rd shift. With the Hellcat A8, there is a greatly reduced probability of driver induced errors. While I sometimes miss the man pedal, such feelings are fleeting. To cure that, I just roll up to a light at 40mph and blip it down into 2nd gear. This causes the car to bark out of the rear exhaust and whine down to a stop. It's a real crowd pleaser move :)
 

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2020 M6 HC
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And I have mentioned before, this M6 is the most difficult to use manual I have owned. I guess a manual rated for HC torque needs to be more beefy than the "normal" cars I have owned. I have considered replacing with an RE, I have received offers for more than I paid new, but just can't give up the M. Not yet. :) Like I said, it would be nice to have both!

I posted this vid maybe twice already and it is still fun to watch. Realize that the stiff clutch he refers to is the earlier HC's, my 2020 has a perfectly normal clutch.

 

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A more skilled driver doesn't need to justify anything, but nice try.
That's a pretty ignorant statement. It takes much more driver skill to drive and track a manual transmission car.

Auto being faster, reducing track times and being the smarter decision for times and all out performance, I'll give you but trying to state it takes more skill to drive an auto.... That's a new one....
 

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And I have mentioned before, this M6 is the most difficult to use manual I have owned. I guess a manual rated for HC torque needs to be more beefy than the "normal" cars I have owned.
I think the reason why is the HC comes with a factory twin disc clutch which, in general, is harder to launch gently than a single disc car. I know it takes me a little bit to used to it when I get back in my HC after driving my Mustang or Viper which are both single disc cars and visa versa.
 

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And I have mentioned before, this M6 is the most difficult to use manual I have owned. I guess a manual rated for HC torque needs to be more beefy than the "normal" cars I have owned. I have considered replacing with an RE, I have received offers for more than I paid new, but just can't give up the M. Not yet. :) Like I said, it would be nice to have both!

I posted this vid maybe twice already and it is still fun to watch. Realize that the stiff clutch he refers to is the earlier HC's, my 2020 has a perfectly normal clutch.

When I test drove a 2020 Hellcat NB 6-speed, it was as easy to drive as my 2001 Trans Am. In fact, I think the clutch was lighter (of course the Trans Am has a McLeod RST dual disc, but still hydraulic slave/master (Tick)). I have also driven Scat-Pack six-speeds. So easy.
 

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@DodgeCares Do you have any update? Will manuals be available to order at the start of 2022 ordering?
Hi @PitchBlackCat ,
As we posted on the other thread- Manual transmission Dodge Challenger Hellcats will be available for the 2022 model year. We are working hard to make manual transmission hellcats available, however currently they are not available for order.
Please use the link below to learn more about 2022 Dodge Challengers and Chargers.

Rob
Dodge Cares
 

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Hell, some people like to bow hunt or muzzle load even though they're much easier options out there.

Every time I drive my Hellcat, I appreciate my third pedal even more. I honestly couldn't imagine driving it in auto...I would be so bored...

The only thing I contemplate is why so many auto owners shit on manual owners in threads specific to manual. I don't see manual owners shit on auto owners in their threads?
Auto owners are the vaccinated people of the transmission world. They love transmission of just how superior their choice is.
 

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That's a pretty ignorant statement. It takes much more driver skill to drive and track a manual transmission car.

Auto being faster, reducing track times and being the smarter decision for times and all out performance, I'll give you but trying to state it takes more skill to drive an auto.... That's a new one....
IMO, if you can drive a manual, it's pretty much second nature. Time attack work is 90% mental. You don't hear too many folks complaining about poor times and blaming it on poor shifting. Generally, the car's braking power, turn entry and exit positioning, combined with the car's overall performance potential determines the E/T.

The first time I hit a track I'm unfamiliar with (or if it's the first time in a long while), I drive a slow lap or two as I try to notice any noteworthy spots on the track. Cracked pavement, where the aprons are, rubber present on the apexes, placement of track signage and so on. I also study the track layout the night before and use that initial lap to sort of run through the pattern in my head. Once done, I go back and make any adjustments to the car based on track conditions. From then on, it's about hitting the apexes, setting up for turns and braking points, etc. If you know how to shift a manual, your brain isn't really thinking about what gear to be in. If you know your car, you instinctively know when to shift and to where for what you're getting ready to do. That, and in most cars, you really only use 2nd 3rd and 4th unless you're on a big 3 mile course with enough room to go 120+. A typical turn is generally going to be accelerate, braaaaake, pop down into 2nd, roll out of the turn, shift, gas, shift. Repeat 10-12x. To say, it's pretty obvious as to what gear you should be in.

A manual is a bit easier to aid in hard braking if needed as you can get the trans to go from say 4th to 2nd a bit more precisely. But the auto is better on the egress as you can manage the torque a bit better without having to worry about popping the clutch out too hard. There's pluses and minuses to both. Modern manuals are SOOOOO much easier to drive than old school top loaders and synchromesh classic style transmissions. I don't think it takes any particular amount of great skill to drive any modern transmission, manual or automatic. It's not like having to shift from first to 2nd and have to bounce off the synchro once before it slows enough to let you do it. For those who've never driven one of those old vintage transmissions, shift hard 1st - 2nd, then you audibly hear the synchro sing as it prevents you from hitting second cleanly. So, your right arm does a pull down, momentary release, then pull down hard again to shift quickly. That too didn't take "skill," but took a bit of practice to learn the muscle memory for how to shift quickly.

Driving skill on the track is more or less proved by how well the driver maintains discipline in the turns and how aggressive they are on egress. Shifting is akin to breathing. Everyone can do it.
 

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IMO, if you can drive a manual, it's pretty much second nature. Time attack work is 90% mental. You don't hear too many folks complaining about poor times and blaming it on poor shifting. Generally, the car's braking power, turn entry and exit positioning, combined with the car's overall performance potential determines the E/T.

The first time I hit a track I'm unfamiliar with (or if it's the first time in a long while), I drive a slow lap or two as I try to notice any noteworthy spots on the track. Cracked pavement, where the aprons are, rubber present on the apexes, placement of track signage and so on. I also study the track layout the night before and use that initial lap to sort of run through the pattern in my head. Once done, I go back and make any adjustments to the car based on track conditions. From then on, it's about hitting the apexes, setting up for turns and braking points, etc. If you know how to shift a manual, your brain isn't really thinking about what gear to be in. If you know your car, you instinctively know when to shift and to where for what you're getting ready to do. That, and in most cars, you really only use 2nd 3rd and 4th unless you're on a big 3 mile course with enough room to go 120+. A typical turn is generally going to be accelerate, braaaaake, pop down into 2nd, roll out of the turn, shift, gas, shift. Repeat 10-12x. To say, it's pretty obvious as to what gear you should be in.

A manual is a bit easier to aid in hard braking if needed as you can get the trans to go from say 4th to 2nd a bit more precisely. But the auto is better on the egress as you can manage the torque a bit better without having to worry about popping the clutch out too hard. There's pluses and minuses to both. Modern manuals are SOOOOO much easier to drive than old school top loaders and synchromesh classic style transmissions. I don't think it takes any particular amount of great skill to drive any modern transmission, manual or automatic. It's not like having to shift from first to 2nd and have to bounce off the synchro once before it slows enough to let you do it. For those who've never driven one of those old vintage transmissions, shift hard 1st - 2nd, then you audibly hear the synchro sing as it prevents you from hitting second cleanly. So, your right arm does a pull down, momentary release, then pull down hard again to shift quickly. That too didn't take "skill," but took a bit of practice to learn the muscle memory for how to shift quickly.

Driving skill on the track is more or less proved by how well the driver maintains discipline in the turns and how aggressive they are on egress. Shifting is akin to breathing. Everyone can do it.
So much this.... there are pros and cons to both and it truly does come down to the type of vehicle/type of racing you're doing....

Very well stated..
 

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That being said, drag work is very much dependent upon shifting. Not only on launch, but on how fast the car shifts as shift time = no power time. That's why the M6s are slower. You can be the most skilled shifter in the world, but you'll still be shifting for longer than an automatic will be. The A8 is just too good to be beaten by a human.
 

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That being said, drag work is very much dependent upon shifting. Not only on launch, but on how fast the car shifts as shift time = no power time. That's why the M6s are slower. You can be the most skilled shifter in the world, but you'll still be shifting for longer than an automatic will be. The A8 is just too good to be beaten by a human.
I concur. I felt the A10 in the ZL1 is a touch better, but it's literally potato/po-tato when it comes to that...

Both are insanely fast, reliable at high power thresholds, and easy on gas despite it...
 

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IMO, if you can drive a manual, it's pretty much second nature. Time attack work is 90% mental. You don't hear too many folks complaining about poor times and blaming it on poor shifting. Generally, the car's braking power, turn entry and exit positioning, combined with the car's overall performance potential determines the E/T.

The first time I hit a track I'm unfamiliar with (or if it's the first time in a long while), I drive a slow lap or two as I try to notice any noteworthy spots on the track. Cracked pavement, where the aprons are, rubber present on the apexes, placement of track signage and so on. I also study the track layout the night before and use that initial lap to sort of run through the pattern in my head. Once done, I go back and make any adjustments to the car based on track conditions. From then on, it's about hitting the apexes, setting up for turns and braking points, etc. If you know how to shift a manual, your brain isn't really thinking about what gear to be in. If you know your car, you instinctively know when to shift and to where for what you're getting ready to do. That, and in most cars, you really only use 2nd 3rd and 4th unless you're on a big 3 mile course with enough room to go 120+. A typical turn is generally going to be accelerate, braaaaake, pop down into 2nd, roll out of the turn, shift, gas, shift. Repeat 10-12x. To say, it's pretty obvious as to what gear you should be in.

A manual is a bit easier to aid in hard braking if needed as you can get the trans to go from say 4th to 2nd a bit more precisely. But the auto is better on the egress as you can manage the torque a bit better without having to worry about popping the clutch out too hard. There's pluses and minuses to both. Modern manuals are SOOOOO much easier to drive than old school top loaders and synchromesh classic style transmissions. I don't think it takes any particular amount of great skill to drive any modern transmission, manual or automatic. It's not like having to shift from first to 2nd and have to bounce off the synchro once before it slows enough to let you do it. For those who've never driven one of those old vintage transmissions, shift hard 1st - 2nd, then you audibly hear the synchro sing as it prevents you from hitting second cleanly. So, your right arm does a pull down, momentary release, then pull down hard again to shift quickly. That too didn't take "skill," but took a bit of practice to learn the muscle memory for how to shift quickly.

Driving skill on the track is more or less proved by how well the driver maintains discipline in the turns and how aggressive they are on egress. Shifting is akin to breathing. Everyone can do it.
This is all good and agreed to/understood but it takes more skill to drive a manual than an Auto in general. You talk about shifting with a manual being second nature. That is only because it is a learned skill. Don't believe me go to your nearest service station and take a poll on how many of their techs can even get your manual car from the parking lot to the oil center without stalling it. These days I'm betting it's less than 20%. Shoot, I can't think of the last time I didn't have to drive one of my manual cars for the tech that was doing my state inspection.

In the world of professional race car drivers the ability to even start off is just a given but in the general population that ability is dwindling fast and as such why I say it takes more skill to track a manual car. Any yahoo can get behind the wheel of an auto car and take it around a track. They may not set any records but they can do it. Not every person can do that with a manual and even less will know which gear to select when downshifting for a corner. I wont even get into the number of people that can rev match while doing this as well. For those that do this all the time it doesn't feel like skill anymore but it is.
 
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It's not so much a special skill these days, rather, knowledge of an antiquated, less efficient means of changing gears. Give a teenager a rotary phone today and watch how they can't make a phone call.

 

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Every month or so I build a new RE on Dodge.com thinking I can ugrade for $10k or less, but it always comes back to: will I have more fun with a A8RE than a M6HC. I love driving the M6, I have never driven a A8 but I think about it when I am driving backroads, and I always think the A8 has to be boring (unless you shift needlessly). The video “I should have bought a Manual HC” (which I posted several times) galvanized my decision to buy the M6, and continues to reaffirm my stance to keep it. Besides, if Dodge never makes another M6HC it would be lifelong regret. I’ll keep building RE’s and we’ll see how it goes. To me, it is not about how fast, but rather, how much fun!
 

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Every month or so I build a new RE on Dodge.com thinking I can ugrade for $10k or less, but it always comes back to: will I have more fun with a A8RE than a M6HC. I love driving the M6, I have never driven a A8 but I think about it when I am driving backroads, and I always think the A8 has to be boring (unless you shift needlessly). The video “I should have bought a Manual HC” (which I posted several times) galvanized my decision to buy the M6, and continues to reaffirm my stance to keep it. Besides, if Dodge never makes another M6HC it would be lifelong regret. I’ll keep building RE’s and we’ll see how it goes. To me, it is not about how fast, but rather, how much fun!
Go to a dealership and test drive an A8 Scat Pack. The Hellcat feel is similar.
 

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Just read this thread. Anyone know what’s more fun then a manual Hellcat? A 1000 HP manual Hellcat. :)
Nailing gears just right, dealing with spinning and wiggling at 100+, throttle blips while down shifting red light to red light, being the master of the car not just the driver of the car. I know if my car was an auto it’d be a 9 second car every pass at the track, but it’s just so much more special getting it all right, the burn out, the launch, the shifts, and getting a 9 second slip that just makes trying for it so much more of a challenge it keeps it from ever getting boring. I too have thought many times about going auto because it’s so much easier at the track, and easier in parts especially at elevated HP but I think after a few visits at the track of just mash the gas and go in a auto and get the same 9 second slip time after time it would get boring and unchallenging, for me at least. I’d love to have one of each too though lol, and until that day happens I’ll always have at least a stick one. What question gets asked often when people ask to about your car? For me the first question most often is, “is it a stick or a automatic?” When I answer stick it always gets big smiles and thumbs ups, I think I’m going to start saying automatic and see what kind of expressions it brings, just to see, But I already think I know the answer. And plus I don’t want to be embarrassed by saying it’s an automatic 😂LOL
 
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