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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Started this discussion here: Help! 305's Rubbing 2019 Charger Hellcat

But long story short, bought some 305/35ZR20 PS4S tires mounted on 20x11 FR77 Wheels. Noticed a lot more rubbing than expected. Most charger guys mount 305s and even 315s without issue. Looking into it further i measured my clearance between the stock 275 sidewall and the wheel well where i was getting rubbing (front inside at about 8 o'clock). On the drivers side the front inside corner of the tire is almost .5 to .75 inches closer than the same point on the passenger side. This makes is impossible to even mount the driver 305 but the passenger side is probably fine.

Driving I have only noticed a little pull to the right, and have had a good bit of vibration that from day one the dealer said was expected for these cars/tires. so I haven't worried about it.

Is it possible that the rear cradle/subframe needs to be adjusted? Is this possibly an alignment issue? I'm not an expert on Independent rear suspensions or vehicle alignment, just speculating. Can this be fixed. It seams like that driver side could be adjusted and get back some clearance. Just seems like if it was so far out on the back I would notice some poor driving characteristics. But it is visibly different between the two sides, and confirmed by measurement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
This is kind of what I'm thinking just simply based on my simple observation and measurements taken.

570281
 

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I've posted several threads here on both proper tire balance and wheel alignment procedures. Do a search with my name and then use keyword "balance" and then "alignment" to see the posts. The factory has no way to align these cars after assembly (because of the cradles), so a 4-wheel alignment is mandatory and done the way I posted.

What the dealer told you about tire balance is PURE BS! The reason your wheels are out of balance is they were initially balanced on a Hunter Balancer with Smart Balance/Smart Weight Mode turned ON. These modes MUST be turned OFF for a proper balance on our HCs.

As for alignment, you could post pics of your original tire treads (full tread) so we can see any wear patterns OR get a 4-wheel alignment check at a local Goodyear (not your dealer since they BS'd you on your wheel balance). Post the printout here for feedback.

When does it drift or pull? How does the car track on a level road or during braking? When did it start, before or after a tire change? If new tires, was Road Force checked??

As for your tires having different inside clearances, you may have to have a body shop do some body/frame measurements to know exactly where you are before you start considering moving the cradles around.

Let us know...
 

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I'm assuming you mean "drifting" as opposed to pulling when you apply the brakes? Anyone who tells you this, and vibrations are normal, are full of it. Spend the $105, at least around here, and get the alignment checked. That will tell you more than the message boards. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Below are picture of the stock tire treats;

570309
570310


This is the gap I am seeing with stock tires and wheels mounted drivers side then passenger side:

570311

570312


This is just a quick measurement, side skirt to tire in both sides:
570313
570314


These are from my attempt to mount the 305’s you can see that I was not even close to getting the wheel seated on the hub when I had solid contact on the inner wheel well.
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570316


on my drive home today I noted no pull when braking and a slight drift to the right when cruising on flat road. But again I’m not concerned so much with ride quality as I am with why I am having such different clearance for the wheels from one side to the other and apparently much different from every other charger owner...
 

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Below are picture of the stock tire treats;

View attachment 570309 View attachment 570310

This is the gap I am seeing with stock tires and wheels mounted drivers side then passenger side:

View attachment 570311
View attachment 570312

This is just a quick measurement, side skirt to tire in both sides:
View attachment 570313 View attachment 570314

These are from my attempt to mount the 305’s you can see that I was not even close to getting the wheel seated on the hub when I had solid contact on the inner wheel well.
View attachment 570315 View attachment 570316

on my drive home today I noted no pull when braking and a slight drift to the right when cruising on flat road. But again I’m not concerned so much with ride quality as I am with why I am having such different clearance for the wheels from one side to the other and apparently much different from every other charger owner...
It seems like 2 tires (rear?) are feathered which is a toe/alignment issue. It also looks like your Rear Cradle needs centered/reset to factory specs. A Body Shop should be able to tell you the specs and get the rear cradle reset. Then, do an alignment per my suggestion/procedure following the Alignment Numbers and Procedure I posted with NO "In The Green" Alignment.

Have your wife drive the car and you follow... see if the car is "dog tracking" (back of car shifted left or right compared to the front). The Rear Axle has to follow the Front Axle and not influence the track either way.

If the Rear Cradle is off, then the rear alignment will be off and can cause all kinds of issue, i.e. feathered tires, vehicle drift, scrubbing tires while rolling down the road, wheel/tire hop, rear axle leading one way compared to the front, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It seems like 2 tires (rear?) are feathered which is a toe/alignment issue. It also looks like your Rear Cradle needs centered/reset to factory specs. A Body Shop should be able to tell you the specs and get the rear cradle reset. Then, do an alignment per my suggestion/procedure following the Alignment Numbers and Procedure I posted with NO "In The Green" Alignment.

Have your wife drive the car and you follow... see if the car is "dog tracking" (back of car shifted left or right compared to the front). The Rear Axle has to follow the Front Axle and not influence the track either way.

If the Rear Cradle is off, then the rear alignment will be off and can cause all kinds of issue, i.e. feathered tires, vehicle drift, scrubbing tires while rolling down the road, wheel/tire hop, rear axle leading one way compared to the front, etc.
Thanks for the solid advise. I’ll get to a body shop and try to get some cradle to frame measurements first and see if we can either rule that issue out or get it resolved. Will follow up with your alignment procedure.

Should I even bother taking it to the dealership for warranty repair if their is a cradle misalignment or is this something outside of their capability/could just make it worse?
 

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Talk to the service Mgr & see what s/he says. Maybe the alignment tech can handle the cradle measurements & adjustment. Setting the rear toe & thrust angle is not going to fix a mismounted cradle. The cradle position has to be corrected prior to a 4 wheel alignment.

If the dealer can't/won't do it, find a local Goodyear store & talk to the tech, see if he is capable/willing to do it or get a referral. Keep going 'til you find someone willing to do it. Most good alignment techs know about cradles & how to adjust. If Goodyear is able to fix, take the bill to the dealer service mgr for reimbursement.

Let us know....
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Where I’m sitting now with alignment. No adjustment were made yet. Have an appointment with a frame shop that has experience measuring the IRS cradle in our cars next week. Also went ahead and ordered a set of Truhart Camber adjustment linkages for the rear end so they will be here when I can get back to getting the wheels aligned.

570365
 

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Where I’m sitting now with alignment. No adjustment were made yet. Have an appointment with a frame shop that has experience measuring the IRS cradle in our cars next week. Also went ahead and ordered a set of Truhart Camber adjustment linkages for the rear end so they will be here when I can get back to getting the wheels aligned.

View attachment 570365
That's good news. Have the frame shop show you the specs they will use and suggest staying with your car and have them show you/watch them so you know what happened and the outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
That's good news. Have the frame shop show you the specs they will use and suggest staying with your car and have them show you/watch them so you know what happened and the outcome.
The framing shop manager said me and him could sit with the tech while it’s on the rack and make sure I’m satisfied before I leave. Will make sure to tip tech well. The guy sounded very knowledgeable over the phone. Gave me the warm fuzzy I was not getting talking to the dodge service manager.
 

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Something is very wrong with that rear camber measurement. Stock is around -0.5 or so. Is this after adding new rear camber links but prior to them being adjusted? Based on the rear toe, I'd say not but could be wrong. That front total toe is also terrible. should be 0.2
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Nothing has been adjusted yet. This is the first alignment check it’s had. 15k miles. Getting a framing shop to measure the rear cradle for alignment next week. I’m having more issues than just bad alignment. After the cradle is centered and squared will go get the alignment fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Can I get some of you guys to measure the space you have between your wheel and the front side skirt and the wheel and the rear bumper

Observed this issues with the wheel off. Upper Camber link. (Forward side of tire) on my driver side has been hitting body flange. Shop manual says minimum of 12mm clearance here. I have about 4 at best. You can see this link through the wheels.

Just looking for some comparisons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Got the AAD rear control arms installed today. Diagnosis was a bent camber arm on the drivers side, coupled with a pretty bad factory alignment. Cradle was centered and square, although I messed with that in my driveway before taking it to the shop, so I had it pretty close by tape measure. My 305 PS4Ss now fit just fine on the rear with about a hands width between the tire and inner well. No spacers needed. Also went ahead and installed a diff brace. Car is very planted, no wheel hop, and lots of traction. Below are my final alignment results. Need to get some more tabs for the AAD Arms to make some more rear adjustment. Have some camber/caster bolts for the front but did not install. Not sure if it’s worth it. Car rides smooth and straight as is. Let me know what you think. Should I try to get the alignment better or let it ride?

571255
 
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