[TRIPLE6]

With Ford’s head start in the EV world, specifically by building massive battery facilities in Tennessee, I can’t see Stellantis being even close to ready for much by 2024. Maybe a Neon framed Dart but it’s going to take years for any real transformation of the larger heavier cars to be mass produced.
Tesla is producing a million cars a year now and will do 20x that by 2030. Ford made 28k mustangs in 2021 and will be outputting 600k vehicles by 2024. Stellantis is behind and this hype of “The last of the V8s” isn’t happening in the timeline provided by Stellantis. Maybe by 2026/2027.

 

[CPO Super stock]

With Ford’s head start in the EV world, specifically by building massive battery facilities in Tennessee, I can’t see Stellantis being even close to ready for much by 2024. Maybe a Neon framed Dart but it’s going to take years for any real transformation of the larger heavier cars to be mass produced.
Tesla is producing a million cars a year now and will do 20x that by 2030. Ford made 28k mustangs in 2021 and will be outputting 600k vehicles by 2024. Stellantis is behind and this hype of “The last of the V8s” isn’t happening in the timeline provided by Stellantis. Maybe by 2026/2027.

Dealer told me this is the last year for the 5.7 in a 1500. Dodge already has a turbo 6 they are ready to field for a truck. I wish you were correct but regulations are making them do it. We are headed to the mid 70's for ICE.
Just maybe we get some GN like cars. fingers crossed.

 

[Mopar392]

Ford is saying the next generation Mustang, due in 2024, will be “the last V8 muscle car”, but it will hybrid.

As for Stellantis, the Turbo-6 should start production in the 2nd half of the year. But I don’t think it will be on a full capacity to stop the production of the 5.7 this year.

Stellantis electrification plan is already in progress in Europe. It’s a matter of when they’ll shift it to the US

 

[TOPDAWG]

They are years behind Ford, and obviously further behind Tesla.

Ford is saying the next generation Mustang, due in 2024, will be “the last V8 muscle car”, but it will hybrid.

As for Stellantis, the Turbo-6 should start production in the 2nd half of the year. But I don’t think it will be on a full capacity to stop the production of the 5.7 this year.

Stellantis electrification plan is already in progress in Europe. It’s a matter of when they’ll shift it to the US

 

[tacamo01]

There have been generational changes in car performance requirements. A majority of the last two generations could care less about performance and even less about a V8. Dodge sells more V6's than the V8's.

Regulations and Pricing are going to doom the V8's. 6 years ago you could get a 5.7L Challenger fully loaded for around $35K. That same optioned out car will cost close to $50K today with very few incentives.

 

[Slowpoke387]

With Ford’s head start in the EV world, specifically by building massive battery facilities in Tennessee, I can’t see Stellantis being even close to ready for much by 2024. Maybe a Neon framed Dart but it’s going to take years for any real transformation of the larger heavier cars to be mass produced.
Tesla is producing a million cars a year now and will do 20x that by 2030. Ford made 28k mustangs in 2021 and will be outputting 600k vehicles by 2024. Stellantis is behind and this hype of “The last of the V8s” isn’t happening in the timeline provided by Stellantis. Maybe by 2026/2027.

It’s happening strictly due to emissions regs changing. The V-8’s will no longer pass after 2023. Whether the new electric models are any good, or if theyve been keeping it under wraps and playing possum is still to be seen.

 

[TRIPLE6]

Maybe it will be last of the V8's and insert the V6 turbos, but the EV's are not happening as fast as the hype. Stellantis zero means to mass produce batteries online right now. Don't care about europe, thats smoke and mirrors. Anyone can produce 20k EV cars in europe, and ship them here, but that's not a real plan.
I'm not promoting Ford, just saying, Ford is years ahead in the EV game, and will be in a great position come 25/26.

It’s happening strictly due to emissions regs changing. The V-8’s will no longer pass after 2023. Whether the new electric models are any good, or if theyve been keeping it under wraps and playing possum is still to be seen.

 

[Mattm400]

Every day is a sad day when it comes to this. I for one hate it, everything I love about cars growing up will be gone.

 

[Xylander]

With Ford’s head start in the EV world, specifically by building massive battery facilities in Tennessee, I can’t see Stellantis being even close to ready for much by 2024. Maybe a Neon framed Dart but it’s going to take years for any real transformation of the larger heavier cars to be mass produced.
Tesla is producing a million cars a year now and will do 20x that by 2030. Ford made 28k mustangs in 2021 and will be outputting 600k vehicles by 2024. Stellantis is behind and this hype of “The last of the V8s” isn’t happening in the timeline provided by Stellantis. Maybe by 2026/2027.

Regardless how fast or slow Stellantis is moving, the Federal US government won't allow them to sell any new V8s in 2024, so they're done. Technically, the government isn't forcing them to stop, but with those new CAFE standards, Stellantis would lose money on every single car sold due to the exorbitant fines.

 

[lws]

heres a quote from your own company.

What is clear is that electrification is a technology chosen by politicians, not by industry.”

- STELLANTIS CEO CARLOS TAVARES ON EUROPE’S ELECTRIC VEHICLE PUSH

Tavares EU CO2 Critique Finds Support, But Environmentalists Disagree (forbes.com)

 

[Slowpoke387]

ill believe there gone when i see it with my own eyes. Car manufactures make what sells. V8 trucks sell. Look at the improvements in v8s in fuel economy and emissions over the last 20 or even 10 years. Who says they cant go ever futher with that platform. My last silverado would get 23mpg on the highway. thats as good as any v6 toyota or even chev pickup does. I think taking the v8 out of the challenger will doom it. Let ford and chev go that direction and watch the sales sore. Im 65 and if they end v8 challengers i wont buy another and if they come out with a FACTUAL date there ending them in rams ill go to the dealer and trade my 2020 on one of the last ones and run it till i die. My guess is when we get the hippys voted out of our goverment leadership positions all of this will change.

The ship has sailed. Of COURSE it's driven by politics but so what? It's not going to matter who's in office now, they have too much invested to go back. But tbh why would they? The buyers of today and tomorrow ARE the hippies. We are the buyers of yesterday and we're dying off. There's a demand for the EV's. Not with me but it's clearly there. Look at the waiting lists for electric trucks. Performance EV's will catch on with the nerds too. It's coming. I'd love for it to flop too though. Not a fan whatsoever but denial can be a terrible thing lol.

 

[lws]

the hippys arent buying hellcats and rams. There buying priuses and little toyota trucks and truth be it that probably 90 percent of them buy suvs not challengers or full sized trucks. Go to your ram dealer and see whats left on the lot. Probably 75 percent of the trucks are 6cyl. Go to the chev lot and about all you see left are 4 cyl turbos. Why? Truck people dont want them. It nothing but political bs thats trying to end v8s. Ship sailing is still powered by a hemi. Kind of reminds me of a year ago when everyone said guns would be banned. Aint happened yet. Matter of fact not one new gun restriction has been passed other then some bs city laws.

 

[tacamo01]

At least BMW has got it right. Their R&D chief engineer: “even in 2025, there will still be many people who can’t drive an electric car because they don’t have the necessary infrastructure.”
BMW is developing new V8's currently and expect them to be on the market well past 2025

What could be the roadmap for new BMW internal combustion engines

BMW engines will get new updates. Is BMW making a mistake in continuing to invest in the internal combustion engine?

www.bmwblog.com

 

[Mopar392]

Stellantis only commented on discontinuing the Hellcat on the cars after 2023.

 

[Xylander]

ill believe there gone when i see it with my own eyes. Car manufactures make what sells. V8 trucks sell. Look at the improvements in v8s in fuel economy and emissions over the last 20 or even 10 years. Who says they cant go ever futher with that platform. My last silverado would get 23mpg on the highway. thats as good as any v6 toyota or even chev pickup does. I think taking the v8 out of the challenger will doom it. Let ford and chev go that direction and watch the sales sore. Im 65 and if they end v8 challengers i wont buy another and if they come out with a FACTUAL date there ending them in rams ill go to the dealer and trade my 2020 on one of the last ones and run it till i die. My guess is when we get the hippys voted out of our goverment leadership positions all of this will change.

You can take our word for it or spend 30 seconds Google searching and see that Dodge is not allowed to produce V8s after 2023. It doesn't matter what people want.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards work like this:
The EPA determines what a manufacturer's FLEET MPG average has to be and that becomes the target standard, industry wide. If the CAFE standard is 32mpg, the manufacturer has to meet that standard when an average is taken for all of their models befitting that class' standard (there's different standards for most cars and light trucks). If a manufacturer has EVs and 4cyl engines making in excess of 50mpg, this allows them to produce a number of V8s or V6s that get 22mpg, so long as they make enough of the 50mpg vehicles to offset.

Now, let's look at Dodge. This is important. Not a single vehicle Dodge makes, from the Pentastar equipped SXT to the 6.2L Hellcat engines meet the latest CAFE standard. Furthermore, the lowly SXT doesn't even meet the minimum light truck standard for 2024. Thus, the fuel guzzling V8s have no offset. Failure to reduce the MPG average to within standards results in huge fines. To get around these fines, Dodge under FCA were buying offset credits from Tesla to the tune of nearly 1.5 BILLION every QUARTER. Both the Federal government and Stellantis have halted Dodge's ability to use this loophole, starting in 2024. The fines would be so stiff, that on every car sold (to include the base model V6s), Dodge would lose money.

Thus, Dodge is forced to halt production of V8s and V6s because they don't meet the 2024 standard as they don't have a single 4 cyl or EV in their lineup to offset the MPG average. Fun fact, the Hemis would have been pulled in 2018 had Trump not reversed the Obama EPA's CAFE standard. When Biden took office in 2020, he reinstated the Obama era CAFE standard via executive order on his first day, which will directly result in the termination of Dodge V8 engine production when they go into effect in 2024.

Stellantis as well as the Dodge CEO have many times over confirmed that all the engines we have today will be gone in 2024. The new models will be i4 and i6 engines. No V8s.

 

[WickedHEMI]

If only politicians and eco nuts knew what the real carbon footprint is to manufacture EVs...

 

[HellcatHellYeah]

So Dodge could bring back a 4 cylinder, electric, or hybrid Dart and make a new turbo V6 Avenger and still keep the V8 Chargers and Challengers in theory?

 

[Xylander]

So Dodge could bring back a 4 cylinder, electric, or hybrid Dart and make a new turbo V6 Avenger and still keep the V8 Chargers and Challengers in theory?

In theory, yes. But they wouldn't be able to make more than a couple thousand of them to fit the new 2024 standard. That standard increases the base MPG by 15% across the board. The normal year over year increase is 1.5%. A 15% increase is huge... especially for Dodge who hasn't been in compliance since 2012 and has been paying offset penalties this entire time.

It's been reported that these penalty payments are one of the prime reasons why the LX platform was never modernized as a large portion of these losses were paid out of the R&D budget.

 

[Xylander]

So Dodge could bring back a 4 cylinder, electric, or hybrid Dart and make a new turbo V6 Avenger and still keep the V8 Chargers and Challengers in theory?

I don't know if "bring back" is the correct word. They're using Euro produced inline 4 and inline 6 engines from Peugeot and Fiat (at least that's what their trademark filings have shown). So no on the V6 engines. They're inline 4 and 6, some turbo, some likely NA.

 

[lws]

You can take our word for it or spend 30 seconds Google searching and see that Dodge is not allowed to produce V8s after 2023. It doesn't matter what people want.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards work like this:
The EPA determines what a manufacturer's FLEET MPG average has to be and that becomes the target standard, industry wide. If the CAFE standard is 32mpg, the manufacturer has to meet that standard when an average is taken for all of their models befitting that class' standard (there's different standards for most cars and light trucks). If a manufacturer has EVs and 4cyl engines making in excess of 50mpg, this allows them to produce a number of V8s or V6s that get 22mpg, so long as they make enough of the 50mpg vehicles to offset.

Now, let's look at Dodge. This is important. Not a single vehicle Dodge makes, from the Pentastar equipped SXT to the 6.2L Hellcat engines meet the latest CAFE standard. Furthermore, the lowly SXT doesn't even meet the minimum light truck standard for 2024. Thus, the fuel guzzling V8s have no offset. Failure to reduce the MPG average to within standards results in huge fines. To get around these fines, Dodge under FCA were buying offset credits from Tesla to the tune of nearly 1.5 BILLION every QUARTER. Both the Federal government and Stellantis have halted Dodge's ability to use this loophole, starting in 2024. The fines would be so stiff, that on every car sold (to include the base model V6s), Dodge would lose money.

Thus, Dodge is forced to halt production of V8s and V6s because they don't meet the 2024 standard as they don't have a single 4 cyl or EV in their lineup to offset the MPG average. Fun fact, the Hemis would have been pulled in 2018 had Trump not reversed the Obama EPA's CAFE standard. When Biden took office in 2020, he reinstated the Obama era CAFE standard via executive order on his first day, which will directly result in the termination of Dodge V8 engine production when they go into effect in 2024.

Stellantis as well as the Dodge CEO have many times over confirmed that all the engines we have today will be gone in 2024. The new models will be i4 and i6 engines. No V8s.

who is our. you seem pretty much alone on this