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Challenger SRT Demon
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"A 1/4 mile at a time"...not an oval track at a time.

You were out of your element.
 

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2018 M6 Hellcat
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7 Posts
Lot to unpack here. I've been doing track events, with a variety of other vehicles in the 2700-3500# weight range, since 1996. I had an M6 Scat Pack from mid 2019 until 4/2021, then I went to the current M6 Hellcat.

Yes, it took an adjustment going from a 2770# car to a 4500# car! I did Gingerman and PittRace with the SP, and Gingerman (2X), PittRace, and I'll be doing the full 3.2 Grand Course at NCM in July.

Nowadays I just do it on street rubber (PZ4s now). Challenger handles quite well for being a fatass. SP had H&R springs, HC is stock, both had/have 20x11 with 305s in the rear.

SP was fine, but I thought it was a bit slow. HC is better, but I'm not overly impressed with the acceleration from a 70 roll in 3rd. Which, coincidentally, is a common situation on a road course. Too much weight and barn door aero work against 707 hp.

The HC is fun for the HPDE days I do 2-4x a season on street rubber. All it really needs for the longer tracks like PittRace, Mid-Ohio or NCM is better brake pads (I run Carbotech XP10), but the stock Brembo pads work OK for shorter tracks like Gingerman.

I'm usually one of the only Challengers out there (no Chargers either), but the platform does just fine. And yes, there's always quicker folks, always with far less power, but also far less weight.
 

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224 Posts
That blasted cat replacement and ecm reflash...the dealer had no information about what was actually in the flash and there was no way for the customer to definitively find out.

I think that this lack of info was deliberate- I would NOT have done the recall knowing that the car would bleed horsepower like that.
I watched the dealer remove my perfect condition cats and wondered why bother?
I also thought something was up with the bulshit "cat recall + reflash" meant a detune of some sort.
I only had 1,500 miles on it but the state of California would NOT let me register it until I did the recall.
Kind of new something was different.
Does anyone have the exact specs of the recall?
 

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I also thought something was up with the bulshit "cat recall + reflash" meant a detune of some sort.
I only had 1,500 miles on it but the state of California would NOT let me register it until I did the recall.
Kind of new something was different.
Does anyone have the exact specs of the recall?
I’m not sure but search on this site for that recall and there’s another Hellcat forum site. After you get the recall fixed. I’d have a tuner, tune it right.
 

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246 Posts
For comparison, when mine hit cot it was making 535rwhp on the dyno. After the tune on the same dyno it made 734rwhp. That was still completely stock except the tune all on 93 in 90*+ temps same dyno. Thats how bad COT was hitting. When the car was cold before the tune it made 655rwhp on that same dyno. This is a 21 normal HC Charger WB. NON RE.
I re-read some of these posts.

Dude, you made around 75 more HP with just a tune?
 

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Charger SRT Hellcat RE
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110 Posts
So the Vet Rider was kind enough to explain all the data logging details and power loss in a very well written DM. I understand the cars pulling timing as the IAT's go up. I know about heat soak. I get that the oil cooler is not really designed for extended track use and when the oil is overheated more power is pulled. All this is a non issue for me. But on the issue of COT (cat over temperature) killing boost this was something happening on "normal" highway driving with some WOT attempts. Seems like this type of driving is about the most common form of WOT. Your out cruising around or on a highway and see a long flat straightaway and go WOT from 50 up to whatever you deem safe (say 120). Seems like nearly all board members would have driven their RE's like this. Got a couple folks indicating they have lost boost like this. Do the lack of comments mean that most 21-22 RE owners just haven't seen any boost loss during highway driving going to WOT? I'm in the south so the ambient temp is going to be over 90F during daylight hours for the entire summer. Just trying to understand how common this COT boost loss might be during normal summer driving? Thanks for any input.
I would be interested in this too as I can tell you I have a new 21 HC Charger RE. I was on a straight just cruising and it was 90s out. A gen 2 6.4 charger wanted to play and took off. I can tell you my car fell on its face hard struggling to keep up. I was in shock and thought maybe bad gas as my old 17 normal HC would have eaten this car up. Wonder how much cot is effecting the newer stock rides. Considering a interchiller now honestly to see if we can lower those air temps without a tune.

I’m no tuner or watch the gauge guy normally but I will be watching more closely on my side hearing this. Curious on anyone else experiencing this.

Any ideas on getting around this besides the obvious of course.

Redcatmike
 

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My dealership hasn’t even received my new HC yet but after 2k miles I’ll probably just do a tune. And to eliminate that stupid problem. COT.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a TSB comes out soon about power loss because of the COT problem. That’s why I hope everyone keeps posting if they develop that problem
 

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In The Market
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169 Posts
If they carried more corner speed, it negates your hp advantage for some time. If you could look at everyone’s data, you would likely see they where carrying more mid corner and exit speed. Advice, get an instructor and start learning! It’s a blast! Skill is everything in the twisties.
So much this....
 

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Challenger SRT Redeye
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8,821 Posts
Let’s keep telling them about our disappointment with the Demon/Red Eye engine for anything except a cold drag race.

Never ever had to pull over and just cruise around the track like it was just an interstate highway so that the Dodge could recover from oil temps that run over 290 degrees, because I did not want to blow through another cat OR ENGINE utilizing a cooling system designed for a lot less power. I actually hope to appear on lots of others videos with my left arm hanging out the window pointing everyone by. Oh what fun it was after two or three crap laps, I could get maybe one “reasonable” lap. Most of those “reasonable” laps? TEN SECONDS OFF MY USUSAL consistent times that my 2015 Hellcat that was a lot less money ago could do!

The drag racing community and reports from the street are not that much different it seems with temps over 80 degrees.

@Bowlerguy92, I like your post above. Apparently they never did that. That Hellcat that demo's people around the track in Las Vegas... No wonder he only does a lap or two before coming in! He is overheating. Now I understand why I could barely hear his supercharger on a hot day when I visited there, it was barely working.
 

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Charger SRT Hellcat
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242 Posts
Didn't Dodge run these things in the desert heat for 24 hours to prove out the cooling system? Sounds like that was a myth based on the amount of troubles I'm seeing around overheating.
I took three Bondurant courses, the last being the Advanced Road Racing 3 day. 717 hp 2020 Challenger M6's with the red key. Burned a full tank of fuel before lunch, and 3/4 of a tank after lunch on two of the three days. No overheating, no problems of any kind, in Arizona. AC on half blast the entire time. Apparently the only cars that sometimes overheat are the 6.4's, as the Hellcats have better cooling. Go figure.
 

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I took three Bondurant courses, the last being the Advanced Road Racing 3 day. 717 hp 2020 Challenger M6's with the red key. Burned a full tank of fuel before lunch, and 3/4 of a tank after lunch on two of the three days. No overheating, no problems of any kind, in Arizona. AC on half blast the entire time. Apparently the only cars that sometimes overheat are the 6.4's, as the Hellcats have better cooling. Go figure.
Ya, this is the kind of stuff I thought these cars were capable of. For some reason, seems to not be the case in the real world, or perhaps not every hellcat is exactly the same. Probably also need to remember this is a very small total sample size and those with problems will be most vocal in a message board setting.
 

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Challenger SRT Redeye
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8,821 Posts
This thread concerns the HO or Demon/Redeye power plant. NOT the Hellcat base power plant. When they added the extra power, they did not improve the cooling. Bad!

I owned a 2015 Hellcat and regularly took it to the tracks on very hot days. Never once did it overheat or fail like the Redeye does.
 

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2021 Durango Hellcat
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177 Posts
To the Original post… do you recall the trans downshifting at all when you went WOT) I know from a roll I have to hold the left paddle to get mine to kick down sometimes and even in track mode it likes to keep a less than desirable gear (in my fat pig the difference is massive when it doesn’t drop the extra gear).
 

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Ya, this is the kind of stuff I thought these cars were capable of. For some reason, seems to not be the case in the real world, or perhaps not every hellcat is exactly the same. Probably also need to remember this is a very small total sample size and those with problems will be most vocal in a message board setting.
If you look back at Vet Riders comments the newer cats and recalibration of the PCM that gave him fits (COT) applies to 21 and up models and older models that had new cats installed with the PCM re-flash. 100% agree on the sample size. I am anxiously waiting for some 21-22 RE and HC owners to chime in and say they can go WOT from a normal highway temp and NOT have the car pull boost due to this COT issue. Since the OP's original comment was more broad based around multiple track challenges, the COT is just a part of the conversation to include Oil Temps, Trans shifting characteristics and how to improve your driving skills. Still hoping to see some more COT input - I know members are all going WOT or they wouldn't have bothered to purchase the car.
 

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If you look back at Vet Riders comments the newer cats and recalibration of the PCM that gave him fits (COT) applies to 21 and up models and older models that had new cats installed with the PCM re-flash. 100% agree on the sample size. I am anxiously waiting for some 21-22 RE and HC owners to chime in and say they can go WOT from a normal highway temp and NOT have the car pull boost due to this COT issue. Since the OP's original comment was more broad based around multiple track challenges, the COT is just a part of the conversation to include Oil Temps, Trans shifting characteristics and how to improve your driving skills. Still hoping to see some more COT input - I know members are all going WOT or they wouldn't have bothered to purchase the car.
I've taken my 22 redeye up to about 130 on a reasonably warm 80 degree day and had zero issues with about 1000 miles on the dash, then again I hadn't been monitoring the boost metrics.

If I get another opportunity with clear roads in Mexico, I will give it a try and intentionally sit on the boost gauge and see what I see. We have some warm weather coming this weekend, could be almost 90.
 

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Challenger SRT Hellcat
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Here is a video of my screen during a pass to show how my car acted after the recall flash.
Which is pretty much how the newer cars are set as far as cot is concerned.
It is only a phone video from a cup holder but you can see the boost drop to 8psi and the AFR go to 9. Then it gathered itself up and and picked up boost again only to go through the process again.
 

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DRIVESRT.COM
Challenger SRT Hellcat
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The benefit of pre-2019 Challengers was the hood design. Direct airflow over the supercharger lid and two hood vents to evacuate underhood hot air. The 2019+ two scoops design was great to add more outside air to the air box, but it came at a cost of holding underhood heat. If the Mopar Drag Pak hood/intake design worked on OEM, that would be ideal.

The 2021+ Charger Redeye hood was a nice compromise of evacuating underhood heat while still directing air to the air box.
 
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