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All of this hand wringing is pointless. Anyone is free to ask whatever price they want and you are free to decline to pay that price. No one is obligated to sell at what you consider a fair price.and you aren't obligated to pay their asking price. And to call it a ripoff is just childish, if you agree to pay a price you aren't ripped off.
 

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All of this hand wringing is pointless. Anyone is free to ask whatever price they want and you are free to decline to pay that price. No one is obligated to sell at what you consider a fair price.and you aren't obligated to pay their asking price. And to call it a ripoff is just childish, if you agree to pay a price you aren't ripped off.
I agree, but the point he made is that is was advertised at 1 price and then had the rug pulled out later when they find out someone is interested. That's not the same as saying that the dealer had a high price and it was too high. He is referring to the bait and switch that many of the snake oil dealerships use as a tactic. I paid 3k more than the advertised price for mine because I wanted one so bad I could taste it. It was still a good deal but higher than advertised. Never ever trust an advertisement. My next one will be from Jake for sure!
 

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Yes. Imagine you drive 200 miles to that place to buy it only to find out it’s $50k higher. They’d be paying for my gas at that point.
 

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I agree, but the point he made is that is was advertised at 1 price and then had the rug pulled out later when they find out someone is interested. That's not the same as saying that the dealer had a high price and it was too high. He is referring to the bait and switch that many of the snake oil dealerships use as a tactic. I paid 3k more than the advertised price for mine because I wanted one so bad I could taste it. It was still a good deal but higher than advertised. Never ever trust an advertisement. My next one will be from Jake for sure!
Somewhere on that dealer's website there is fine print that explains that you have to and how to qualify for any rebates and/or discounts. These people are not stupid, there will also be fine print on the website that keeps them within the law.

Bu the real point is that, in October 2021, with all of the Covid issues, supplier shortages, chip shortages and acres of empty dealer lot asphalt, if you think you're to walk onto a dealer's lot and pay $8,000 less than sticker for a new Hellcat then you deserved the rude awakening you got.
 

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Somewhere on that dealer's website there is fine print that explains that you have to and how to qualify for any rebates and/or discounts. These people are not stupid, there will also be fine print on the website that keeps them within the law.

Bu the real point is that, in October 2021, with all of the Covid issues, supplier shortages, chip shortages and acres of empty dealer lot asphalt, if you think you're to walk onto a dealer's lot and pay $8,000 less than sticker for a new Hellcat then you deserved the rude awakening you got.
He's talking $50,000 not $5000. That's ridiculous! Maybe the original thread meant $5000. There is no rebate issue when they are talking $50,000 more. Surely he meant $5000! Would a dealer really add $50,000 on a Hellcat that can be had for a lot less from other dealers? I'm still dumbfounded.
 

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We don't know, since the car sold, but someone clearly wanted the car enough to pay whatever it was.
 

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Somewhere on that dealer's website there is fine print that explains that you have to and how to qualify for any rebates and/or discounts. These people are not stupid, there will also be fine print on the website that keeps them within the law.

Bu the real point is that, in October 2021, with all of the Covid issues, supplier shortages, chip shortages and acres of empty dealer lot asphalt, if you think you're to walk onto a dealer's lot and pay $8,000 less than sticker for a new Hellcat then you deserved the rude awakening you got.
that would be acceptable (yet still unethical) if they would disclose this "detail" at the time you send them an email or call them interested on the ad. However, in typical ridiculous fashion, they will give you the typical dumb excuse that "you need to come in" to discuss the price.

This is absolutely ad-baiting and should be punished.

How would you feel if you went to the grocery store to buy milk, because its on special, and at the register they charge you 80% more because of demand? Stop making excuses for bad business practices, as it makes you suspect for either working for or being one of them.
 

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Your milk analogy actually makes my argument, grocery stores do it all the time, Buy One Get One Free but the Buy One price is twice as high as it was last week. Two for $X but one isn't half that amount. Lower prices for card members because they sell your data whether or not you know it. "Come on" pricing has been used everywhere since the beginning of commerce.

I'm not making excuses, I just don't know how you go from "All car dealers are liars" to "I believe their website implicitly". As I said, their website and advertising is going to comply with the law. But if you want to legislate "ethical" and "fair", well, you're going to give me the standards you want to use to enforce those words.

I'm not defending car dealers, we could be talking about goat farmers for all I care. This is about economics (whose laws some people wan to pretend don't exist) and common sense.
 

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Your milk analogy actually makes my argument, grocery stores do it all the time, Buy One Get One Free but the Buy One price is twice as high as it was last week. Two for $X but one isn't half that amount. Lower prices for card members because they sell your data whether or not you know it. "Come on" pricing has been used everywhere since the beginning of commerce.

I'm not making excuses, I just don't know how you go from "All car dealers are liars" to "I believe their website implicitly". As I said, their website and advertising is going to comply with the law. But if you want to legislate "ethical" and "fair", well, you're going to give me the standards you want to use to enforce those words.

I'm not defending car dealers, we could be talking about goat farmers for all I care. This is about economics (whose laws some people wan to pretend don't exist) and common sense.
I don't know where you shop at, friend, but I would change grocery stores if they did that to me. I monitor all prices and complain when i see price gouging. One thing is promos and fine print, and another blatant false advertisement. If they state the price and put the fine print informing that there is a dependency (e.g. "price is so only when you buy two") is different than finding the cost is double from what they advertised. No one stated all dealerships are liars, at least I didn't. Rather, this specific dealer is known for pulling funny business yet they are empowered and still continue to do so. I would not buy from such a dealership a used fuse. This is unethical business practice and no matter what you try to state doesn't make it right. I have never paid any ADM in my life and will never do.
 

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Your milk analogy actually makes my argument, grocery stores do it all the time, Buy One Get One Free but the Buy One price is twice as high as it was last week. Two for $X but one isn't half that amount. Lower prices for card members because they sell your data whether or not you know it. "Come on" pricing has been used everywhere since the beginning of commerce.

I'm not making excuses, I just don't know how you go from "All car dealers are liars" to "I believe their website implicitly". As I said, their website and advertising is going to comply with the law. But if you want to legislate "ethical" and "fair", well, you're going to give me the standards you want to use to enforce those words.

I'm not defending car dealers, we could be talking about goat farmers for all I care. This is about economics (whose laws some people wan to pretend don't exist) and common sense.
Waiting for this guy to have it happen to him. I see this a lot as I broker sales for clients. I can even identify myself as a broker on a call, ask about the price on a certain stock number, show up and it is $30,000 more when I get there later the same day.

It's dishonest and an inglorious waste of time. It goes much farther than simple website ads, as I always call first. Dealerships are notorious for not keeping their sites up-to-date. To make matters worse, more often than not, the dealerships try to use the old, "Well, if the price is higher, your commission from us will be higher too, so what's the problem?" Some brokers are dishonest, but some of us are client advocates. That's kind of the difference between a professional broker and an independent used car salesman.

No dealerships outside of exotic importers are going to have anything in dealer stock that's ultra rare and pants on fire desirable that can't be ordered or gotten elsewhere on any given day. There's no justification for 30-50% or more price hikes over advertised and/or word of mouth quotes. Price teasing is the modern evolution of the bait and switch, and it is illegal.

As others have mentioned, they do this on cars they don't really want to sell. They're bait cars. They want people to come in and then shift them over to whatever dealer incentive/factory kickback program car they need to get rid of. So, on a Hellcat, maybe they have promos on an R/T that was a custom order that didn't get picked up for whatever reason. So, they'll bait the Hellcat, get the person in, and then show them the actual "deal" on a well-priced R/T. It's like bait-and-switch, except that in the old days, they baited people with cheap no-options base models and switched them to more expensive options and/or model upgrades. Today, they're doing the reverse. You can thank the internet for this.
 

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All of this hand wringing is pointless. Anyone is free to ask whatever price they want and you are free to decline to pay that price. No one is obligated to sell at what you consider a fair price.and you aren't obligated to pay their asking price. And to call it a ripoff is just childish, if you agree to pay a price you aren't ripped off.
Agreed. The MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. I could also complain that the MSRP is too high and that I think Dodge is gouging me and that would be about as useless of an argument. The only "fair" thing to do would be to eliminate all ADMs AND dealer discounts and require them to charge everyone MSRP. Let's take it even further and require you to sell your used vehicle at a pre-determined price. I think many on here would change their tune if that were to happen. As long as the dealer is upfront about what they're asking for the vehicle (in this case what they're adding to the price), I see no problem with it. That's market dictating the price. Happens all the time with the old car market, it ebbs and flows based on many factors.

I do feel the bait-and-switch tactics are incredibly shady however, and it is good for someone to call them out on this.
 

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One minute of searching found this disclaimer on the first three vehicles I checked so I assume it is on all of their vehicles:

"Disclaimer:

Price is plus tax, tag, title, registration, any dealer-installed accessories, and a pre-delivery service fee of $998, Private Tag Agency Fee of $184, and Electronic Registration Filing Fee of $199, which charges represent costs and profits to the dealer for items such as inspecting, cleaning, and adjusting vehicles and preparing documents related to the sale. Pricing is inclusive of all applicable manufacturer incentives and may not be combined with other exclusive offers. See dealer for details.

Pricing is inclusive of all applicable manufacturer incentives and may not be combined with other exclusive offers. See dealer for details."
 

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One minute of searching found this disclaimer on the first three vehicles I checked so I assume it is on all of their vehicles:

"Disclaimer:

Price is plus tax, tag, title, registration, any dealer-installed accessories, and a pre-delivery service fee of $998, Private Tag Agency Fee of $184, and Electronic Registration Filing Fee of $199, which charges represent costs and profits to the dealer for items such as inspecting, cleaning, and adjusting vehicles and preparing documents related to the sale. Pricing is inclusive of all applicable manufacturer incentives and may not be combined with other exclusive offers. See dealer for details.

Pricing is inclusive of all applicable manufacturer incentives and may not be combined with other exclusive offers. See dealer for details."
This doesn't sound like a bait switch with a 50k markup when you get there. That's just what the typical dealer is doing. Yes some have a bit of a market adjustment. Do not be contrary to what the original thread stated. You can't defend no way no how a BS $50,000 markup! He's not talking about anything else. I'm sure it's not his first rodeo and knows how it works with extra fees but come on. Have you ever encountered a 50k markup? Of course not because it's ludicrous! Again, if it's a 5k mark up then that would be more typical.
 

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According to Dodge's website right now there are exactly 0 Challenger Hellcats of any variety on dealer lots within 250 miles of zip code 33411. So if that was the only one, yeah, you're going to pay if you want it.
 

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I recall back in the late 90s when the Prowlers came out. Dealer markup of $20K was standard with those...and I don't recall ever seeing one at MSRP throughout the entire run of 4-5 years.
 

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Somewhere on that dealer's website there is fine print that explains that you have to and how to qualify for any rebates and/or discounts. These people are not stupid, there will also be fine print on the website that keeps them within the law.

Bu the real point is that, in October 2021, with all of the Covid issues, supplier shortages, chip shortages and acres of empty dealer lot asphalt, if you think you're to walk onto a dealer's lot and pay $8,000 less than sticker for a new Hellcat then you deserved the rude awakening you got.
I recall back in the late 90s when the Prowlers came out. Dealer markup of $20K was standard with those...and I don't recall ever seeing one at MSRP throughout the entire run of 4-5 years.
Some of you are missing the point. Its not about the markup, its about that they have it clearly advertised for under sticker and then when you get there, they bait and switch the price on you to the tune of $50k. If it was priced at $120k on both cars.com and their dealer site, then there would be no issue here except for it being grossly overpriced. The problem is that technically they are breaking florida consumer law by posting it for sale at one price, then changing that price in person. That would all be up to interpretation by attorneys, but that's what it looks like. And as I said above, you'd be mighty pissed to drive from a few hours away to go buy this thing, only to be greeted by a $50k ADM when you get there. I know I would be.
 
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