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Should I Build Turbo Systems For Hellcats?

2292 Views 75 Replies 23 Participants Last post by  9secSRT
Hey guys, I've been on the forum here for a little over four years and making videos on YouTube about hellcats for about the same amount of time. I lead with that because I really value your opinions about what's best for these cars and I hope the information I've shared here has be useful.

So to the topic at hand, should I build my own turbo system packages for these vehicles?
I ask the question because I absolutely love the benefits a turbo system offers over supercharger.
  • ability to adjust boost levels at the touch of a button
  • makes 80-100 more wheel horsepower at the same boost settings
  • no issues of Belt slip or Pulley changes
  • no issues of supercharger failures from over spinning the blowers
  • run less ignition timing and less boost yet still produce more power
  • run any gas you want from 91 to E85 to Racegas with a quick tune change
  • boost ramp to help with traction off the line

These are just some of the advantages I've noticed removing the blower and going turbo. I think I want to share this experience with others who typically spend big money on upgraded blower builds in hopes they give Turbos a try.
Other brands like the mustang, has shown Turbos are the faster option and my experience with the hemi says the same.

So what do you all think? Should I make the significant investment and develop my own turbo system packages for these cars to create another option in the marketplace?

I'd leverage my last two years of experience working out the qinks and bugs to develop something that works like a UGR lambo and a calvo viper. I like these companies because their primary focus is getting street cars to be unbelievably fast while being street cars first and not 1/4 mile focused track vehicles.

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I’m kinda surprised it’s not more popular to be honest. Almost every factory supercharged offering ends up having a nice segment of turbo cars because the engines come from the factory built for power.

Just about everyone ends up wanting more power so upgrades are a forgone conclusion. Other than Satera I can’t think of any turbo kits that are very popular. The Hellion kits make crazy power but a lot of people shy away because of the mounting location.

I think if someone could come up with a traditionally mounted kit (I don’t see how) that is similar in price to a Whipple, KB, Maggie, etc. they might catch on better.

I have a buddy with around 5000 miles on an under mount turbo on his Mustang and he thinks his tranny is already going out from the heat.
 

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Curious too if one was to go the turbo route, would it be feasible to do a standard/custom intake manifold and remove the excess weight from up high on the motor? would improve handling characteristics as well as reduce weight perhaps?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I’m kinda surprised it’s not more popular to be honest. Almost every factory supercharged offering ends up having a nice segment of turbo cars because the engines come from the factory built for power.

Just about everyone ends up wanting more power so upgrades are a forgone conclusion. Other than Satera I can’t think of any turbo kits that are very popular. The Hellion kits make crazy power but a lot of people shy away because of the mounting location.

I think if someone could come up with a traditionally mounted kit (I don’t see how) that is similar in price to a Whipple, KB, Maggie, etc. they might catch on better.

I have a buddy with around 5000 miles on an under mount turbo on his Mustang and he thinks his tranny is already going out from the heat.
I too wonder why it's not more common, I think it's also still new in this community. There are also a fair amount of people who tried and failed to get turbo hemis 100% dialed in. They are left with loads of money spent and not much to show for it.

As for the location mine is also Mid mount as that is the best place for packaging and plumbing of full exhaust out the back. Now in my case, I'd use turbo blankets which would essentially mitigate any heat build up near the transmission bell housing. That being said I've run no blankets on my car for almost two years and my Trans Temps didn't appear to be any higher nore signs of discoloration from heat on the internal parts during a rebuild. Could be the bell housing is so large on these cars the transmission casing is a fair distance from the turbo hot side.

With pricing I know a turbo conversion will probably be slightly more expensive than a whipple build but the flexibility provides convenience. In additional if you are paying for HP per dollar the turbo will win at the same boost levels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Curious too if one was to go the turbo route, would it be feasible to do a standard/custom intake manifold and remove the excess weight from up high on the motor? would improve handling characteristics as well as reduce weight perhaps?
Yes it could be an option as I previously had a G1 Pro intake manifold which was the development piece. Unfortunately mine cracked and they went on to improve it for others after mine but no such luck for me. This forced me to go with the gutted blower option which is what you see pictured. I was able to remove ALOT of weight from the blower in this process so if I made a Kit there would be option to do an aftermarket manifold or gut your stock blower.

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I think Hellion pricing makes sense and about where most kits will fall.

What would be different, I wouldn't sell a turbo kit to start out. I would sell a service of building a car with my turbo packages. This means the person sends me the car and i return to them a monster like mine. The Turbo Kit is not what makes the car work and perform, it's the know how and experience of putting all the right parts together and tuning them to work together.
 

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Yes it could be an option as I previously had a G1 Pro intake manifold of which my setup was the development piece. Unfortunately mine cracked and they went on to improve it for others after mine but no such luck for me. This forced me to go with the gutted blower option which is what you see pictured. I was able to remove ALOT of weight from the blower in this process so if I made a Kit there would be option to do an aftermarket manifold or gut your stock blower.

View attachment 609864
Satera has a nice setup on some of his high power/dollar builds in which He switches out the stock blower for a intercooled intake. I like the idea of gutting the blower and just having it there for show but I like the intercooled intake even better. It's not cheap but neither is a forged motor, turbo build.

Something like this:

Holley Ram intake with a built in intercooler...............

I think Hellion pricing makes sense and about where most kits will fall.

What would be different, I wouldn't sell a turbo kit to start out. I would be selling a service of building a car with my turbo packages. This means the person sends me the car and i return to them a monster like mine. The Turbo Kit is not what makes the car work and perform, it's the know how and experience of putting all the right parts together and tuning them to work together.
You've paid for the R&D but it doesn't mean that someone can't look over past posts or video's of your build and just follow what you did or take it where you had build yours (or if they could do it themselves and save what I'd consider a good amount of money on labor). That's what I'd do if I were building something like you did because I don't like paying for labor unless it's absolutely necessary (but I like working on cars too and that doesn't hurt when it comes to saving money because labor isn't cheap).

Would you be building your own turbo systems or modding a Hellion one? Do you do your own tuning?

I'm just asking these questions because that's a couple of the ones that I'd ask if I were interested in something like you're thinking of offering.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just offering some food for thought before you invest your time and money into something and I wish You the Best of Luck in your venture and Hope that it works out for you!

PEACE!
 

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Definitely something worth doing. I had a kia stinger gt1 twin turbo was rated at 385 and added a computer chip that increased the turbo with spark plugs and it was faster then the scat pack. So a turbo on a hellcat would be insane. Definitely price would determine the demand as i am sure u have the supply and know how.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Satera has a nice setup on some of his high power/dollar builds in which He switches out the stock blower for a intercooled intake. I like the idea of gutting the blower and just having it there for show but I like the intercooled intake even better. It's not cheap but neither is a forged motor, turbo build.

Something like this:

Holley Ram intake with a built in intercooler...............



You've paid for the R&D but it doesn't mean that someone can't look over past posts or video's of your build and just follow what you did or take it where you had build yours (or if they could do it themselves and save what I'd consider a good amount of money on labor). That's what I'd do if I were building something like you did because I don't like paying for labor unless it's absolutely necessary (but I like working on cars too and that doesn't hurt when it comes to saving money because labor isn't cheap).

Would you be building your own turbo systems or modding a Hellion one? Do you do your own tuning?

I'm just asking these questions because that's a couple of the ones that I'd ask if I were interested in something like you're thinking of offering.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just offering some food for thought before you invest your time and money into something and I wish You the Best of Luck in your venture and Hope that it works out for you!

PEACE!
Freddy great questions man...
Gearhead fabrications and Setera Tuning both have built some awesome turbo Hemis.
The manifold Setera is using is the one I was the test vehicle for the G1 Pro (rapid3d). After mine cracked I assisted in helping G1Pro & Setera come up with the solution to work moving forward so it won't crack again. So far seems like it's worked for them, I went the ported blower route after.

As for the do it yourselfers, the magic in getting these turbo builds to perform and work is NOT in the turning of the wrenches, so it's not as simple as seeing what I did and doing it.

I don't use the hellion turbo kit as you can identify from the pics I posted in the original post.
I've spent an extensive amount of time making changes to the cold and hot side of my kit to get it where it is today.

My tuner is Drag-On-Tuning, who is the peanut butter to my jam. Together him and I behind the scenes have not only dialed in my car but also others who started down this turbo quest but got stuck along the way. In the process I've gotten a couple hellion cars running and making 4 digit HP.

Thanks for the well wishes and yes it would be an expensive venture.

Here are some pics of the G1Pro
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would be in the market for a turbo swap depending on pricing. Its definitely the way to go for any high hp build.
Well one thing I can say is making over 1000 wheel horsepower will always be expensive, lol.
My goal for a stock motor build would be right at $30k. The setup would easily make 1100whp on E85 or Race Gas safely and 900whp on pump 93. This would be a car coming in completely stock and leaving with an 11xx dyno sheet and stock like driveabilty.

Obviously the bigger power setups with built motor, transmission and all the supporting 1300+whp mods like mine would start to get very pricey.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Definitely something worth doing. I had a kia stinger gt1 twin turbo was rated at 385 and added a computer chip that increased the turbo with spark plugs and it was faster then the scat pack. So a turbo on a hellcat would be insane. Definitely price would determine the demand as i am sure u have the supply and know how.
Yeah man the efficiency of Turbos are un-matched for adding power. I agree man the pricing for these big builds is daunting but at least this way you do it once and done 🤷🏾‍♂️
 

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Freddy great questions man...
Gearhead fabrications and Setera Tuning both have built some awesome turbo Hemis.
The manifold Setera is using is the one I was the test vehicle for the G1 Pro (rapid3d). After mine cracked I assist in helping G1Pro & Setera come up with the solution to work moving forward so it won't crack again. So far seems like it's worked for them, I went the ported blower route after.

As for the do it yourselfers, the magic in getting these turbo builds to perform and work as a 100% like hellcat is NOT in the turning of the wrenches, so it's not as simple as seeing what do and doing it. I don't use the hellion turbo kit as you can identify from the pics I posted in the original post.
I've spent an extensive amount of time making changes to the cold and hot side of my kit to get it where it is today.

My tuner is Drag-On-Tuning who is the peanut butter to my jam. Together him and I behind the scenes have not only dialed in my car but also others who started down this turbo quest but got stuck along the way. In the process I've gotten a couple hellion cars running and making 4 digit HP.

Thanks for the well wishes and yes it would be an expensive venture.

Here are some pics of the G1Pro
Thank You Sir for the info and the pictures and You're Welcome!

I also Appreciate your transparency in your answers too. I've heard that Dodge Tuner's can be pretty tight lipped about their projects/secrets/proprietary stuff and it's refreshing to have someone "Pull back the curtain" and give a straight forward answer!

Once again, Best of Luck and I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide to do!

By the way, that's a Nice intake!
 

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The problem is who is the intended buyer? Turbos are popular on Mustang's because they don't come with a factory power adder like the Hellcat. The Hellcat platform has made over 1400whp on a PD blower and I agree that turbos are a step above blowers but how large is the audience wanting that level of power? I'd say very small. A Mustang is a much more popular drag racing platform than the Dodge platforms and the vast majority of people are quite content with what they can achieve with a blower on this platform.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The problem is who is the intended buyer? Turbos are popular on Mustang's because they don't come with a factory power adder like the Hellcat. The Hellcat platform has made over 1400whp on a PD blower and I agree that turbos are a step above blowers but how large is the audience wanting that level of power? I'd say very small. A Mustang is a much more popular drag racing platform than the Dodge platforms and the vast majority of people are quite content with what they can achieve with a blower on this platform.
Now that's a GREAT question of who's the intended buyer. I have to be able to definitively answer this question for me to proceed with such a large venture. Currently I can see anyone who is planning to modify their hellcat to that well over 1000+whp mark being a potential buyer. It's going to come down to how you'd like to get there turbo vs Upgraded blower build. To build a hellcat to safely live at 1000+whp in most cases with a blower you'll need Forged Pistons and rods because of the amount of boost you'll need to run to get there. Even with a maggie a stock 6.2 will need approx 20 lbs of boost to reach that 1000whp mark. Conversely with my Twin Turbo setup I can get you that same number at 17lbs of boost with a completely stock long block. That's the same as you running a 2.85 and 10% Lower on a stock blower hellcat but you'll make 800whp instead of 1000whp. Should you decide to push your stock motor to 20lbs of boost with the right turbo setup you'll be well into the 11XX whp range. The best part is you can make 900whp for 93 Octane and 800whp for 91 Octane with simply pressing a button in your interior for the change in boost, this is impossible with a blower.
So it's going to come down to preference which is hard to gauge given the lack of adoption of Turbos in this community so far.

As for mustangs I disagree that they are doing turbos because they came NA. They are going with forced induction because they came NA but they had a choice between blower and turbo. Some have chosen blower but the fastest guys in that community are turbo. They chose turbo because it was the option that best fit there needs and that's from 700whp to 2000whp.

I'm not a drag racing guy myself, I prefer a killer on the street that is ready for action at all times. No Pulley changes, no tune changes, just press a button to go up to the highest level as long as there is some corn in the tank. I think there are lots of guys and gals that think like me....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I guess what I'm missing is, if you aren't a parts manufacturer or a fabricator, and you aren't the tuner, what is your value add?
Well if you are looking to build your dream house in an area you don't know who do you call? Do you search for the best electrician, the best plumber, the best concrete guy and the huge list of other vendors you need to complete your dream home?
No, you search the best general contractor who has relationships with all the vendors you'll need and a portfolio of building homes like the one you have in mind.

I work with one of the best tuners in the country, fabricators, turbo manufacturers, turbo component producers, engine builders and the list goes on. I've taken their expertise in their individual areas and built a VERY fast street car that works well and I'd like to see others have the same experience.
 
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