cant someone create a device that records the signals that the fob and car transmit and then just replay them back? Think of it like a learning remote for your tv. Same concept.
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Slew of Burglaries From Vehicles Using New Tech
In Los Angeles and elsewhere there has been a rash of burglaries from vehicles utilizing an RF amplifier that will boost your key fob signal, otherwise too weak to open your car, to open your doors and trunk. The little black box amplifies your own secure code so that your car thinks you are standing at the door.
The thief then enters the vehicle takes what he wants and leaves. Most often they are on bicycles to make quick getaways. Numerous instances have been captured on video.
The solution is simple, use a Faraday cage type pouch or container to prevent the signal from reaching the vehicle. The author of the article I will link you to below suggests using your freezer which I don't recommend as that will prematurely age your fob's battery. Aluminum foil does NOT work, some dumbass news reporter here in L.A. (John Gregory) suggested that without even testing it and I can assure you it does not work.
Amazon sells Faraday pouches which are ridiculously expensive but will work. My wife, genius that she is found the perfect solution for us in our kitchen, reasonably priced, incorporating a sort of Faraday technology (the mesh metal screen on top) and it works flawlessly blocking the signal right next to the vehicle. Our solution is a stainless steel sifter with stainless steel screen built into the lid.
The media also recommends a microwave oven as a storage device, I don't like that solution either for obvious reasons.
I found out by accident the other night that the Hellcat FOB has impressive range. From 40 feet way through 2 load bearing walls and one interior wall I unintentionally unlocked the doors. Apparently, these amplifiers the thieves are using are sensitive enough that they can work with signals too weak to open the car by fob alone. The amplifier can take the weak signal and boost it enough to access the car.
I am not taking any chances some of thefts occurred within 5 miles of my home. I strongly suggest that we take this seriously, secure your fob.
I searched the forum didn't find any info so I thought I would share my solution. I know many have heard the story but apparently not enough to prevent the thefts that occurred last week here in L.A. News story video, etc. below photo.
![Product Audio equipment Cylinder Filter Microphone]()
CNN Story:
Article regarding thefts: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/style/keeping-your-car-safe-from-electronic-thieves.html?_r=0
Fob guard: Fob Guard: Ideal Faraday Cage for Car Keyless Entry Fobs
The thief then enters the vehicle takes what he wants and leaves. Most often they are on bicycles to make quick getaways. Numerous instances have been captured on video.
The solution is simple, use a Faraday cage type pouch or container to prevent the signal from reaching the vehicle. The author of the article I will link you to below suggests using your freezer which I don't recommend as that will prematurely age your fob's battery. Aluminum foil does NOT work, some dumbass news reporter here in L.A. (John Gregory) suggested that without even testing it and I can assure you it does not work.
Amazon sells Faraday pouches which are ridiculously expensive but will work. My wife, genius that she is found the perfect solution for us in our kitchen, reasonably priced, incorporating a sort of Faraday technology (the mesh metal screen on top) and it works flawlessly blocking the signal right next to the vehicle. Our solution is a stainless steel sifter with stainless steel screen built into the lid.
The media also recommends a microwave oven as a storage device, I don't like that solution either for obvious reasons.
I found out by accident the other night that the Hellcat FOB has impressive range. From 40 feet way through 2 load bearing walls and one interior wall I unintentionally unlocked the doors. Apparently, these amplifiers the thieves are using are sensitive enough that they can work with signals too weak to open the car by fob alone. The amplifier can take the weak signal and boost it enough to access the car.
I am not taking any chances some of thefts occurred within 5 miles of my home. I strongly suggest that we take this seriously, secure your fob.
I searched the forum didn't find any info so I thought I would share my solution. I know many have heard the story but apparently not enough to prevent the thefts that occurred last week here in L.A. News story video, etc. below photo.
CNN Story:
Article regarding thefts: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/style/keeping-your-car-safe-from-electronic-thieves.html?_r=0
Fob guard: Fob Guard: Ideal Faraday Cage for Car Keyless Entry Fobs
61 - 77 of 77 Posts
how can you know your homemade cage works, or the RFID/ RF/ LF/ UHF/ blocker type devices on amazon/ as seen on tv ads/ etc / work without testing with one of these amplifiers?
wonder where they got the idea about putting the fob in the freezer? ahemsnowdenahem
"We note that the main reason why relay attacks are possible on PKES systems is that, to open and start the car, instead of verifying that the correct key is in its physical proximity, the car verifies if it can communicate with the correct key, assuming that the ability to communicate implies proximity"
the amp can be built for 17 bucks from what i read and speed betweeen points is critical in the attack..
Attack Mitigations:
Store the key fob in a "Faraday cage"
Experiment with removing the battery from the fob.
Some auto systems have a "dead battery fallback" provision which relies only upon passive RFID proximity.
Longer term: RF Distance Bounding
Measure the Challenge/Response round trip time.
300,000,000 meters / second (299,792,458)
300 m/uS or 0.3m/ns or 3.336 ns/meter
1 meter round trip: 6.67ns
Transponder *must* have a response time variability that's small in relation.
nice post.
video cameras could be considered valuable.my solution for now: disable passive.. keep nothing of value in the car. also: video cameras
My apologies for bumping this thread, but I wanted to pass along a simple solution. As already stated, disable the passive entry. In addition, using aluminum foil, I created a small pouch, 3x3 inches, in which I store my fob at home. I also created a 5x5 pouch for my spare fobs. I tested the fob's distance from inside my front door to where my HC is parked out on the drive way. Each fob unlocked the doors from 20'. When tested from the same location inside the aluminum-foil pouch, the fobs failed to unlock the doors or remote start the car. With the fob inside the aluminum-foil pouch, I began walking towards the car while repeatedly pressing the unlock button. It was only after I was next to the car and just at the driver's side front tire that the doors finally unlocked.
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Disable Passive. Keys locked down. Works!my solution for now: disable passive.. keep nothing of value in the car. also: video cameras
61 - 77 of 77 Posts
