Yup, just like crawlers pinning a front wheel against something and then gassing it to rotate in a tight spot.
What do you guys think standard Challenger vs widebody Charger
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2019 Challenger SRT Hellcat Redeye - 2015 Challenger Hellcat
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ROFLMAO
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What exactly about my statement was so funny?
It's been proven by Road and Track, mirrored in Car and Driver, that the 0-60 and 0-100 time on the NB Challenger is either the same or FASTER than the WB. In every major publication test I've ever seen. That's because 700hp on 275s and 700hp on 305s is not really much difference in rubber per the force being put down. And to really make you think I'm stupid, I've read numerous sources where the NB SRT Hellcat has a .1 average 0-60 faster than the WB Redeye on the street. Reason: Traction control issues due to the increased torque. Sure, on paper the Redeye and WB are faster, until you factor in the uneven/unclean surface of public roads. The less torque the Hellcat makes allows for a wider usable RPM band and controllable force application for street use.
This is probably why so many YouTuber Redeye owners race from a 60 roll.
But, I can absolutely launch a standard body Hellcat from a dig with 275 Michelin PS4S all seasons (they have a higher traction and grip rating than the Pirelli summer tire). I think 0-60 personal best of 3.52 is pretty darn good, and I've been driving 800+ hp cars and 2,500hp Pro Street - 11,000hp top fuel cars since back in the early 1990s. I can launch cars. Do I launch one by rookie stomping the accelerator and screaming, "OMG THE TRACTION SUUUUCKS!" Nope.
More tire is better, yes, but that more tire on a WB Hellcat also = more weight in the wheel, tire, and lengthened suspension components. So, what little traction you do get above the NB, is offset by the additional weight and aero drag. And, I'm not making this up, smarter people than me echoed this in the testing. The WB was designed for TURNING, which it does do better. Much better skidpad marks, but it is not better in a straight line. It's the same, at best. The Hellcats are simply not Mustang GTs and Camaro SSs; cars who can reign in their traction with bigger tires on their sub 500hp platforms. Once you graduate up to "big power," on the street, 275s, 305s, 345s... not much difference really. My 1,024whp Mustang GT has Hoosier R7 345s 35-18s on the rear and my wife has beat me 0-100 using my Hellcat because I couldn't maintain traction in the Mustang through gear shifts... and on the track, that's a 9.28s race car (interior stripped, lightened, caged, purpose built track car). The track would be a wholly one-sided operation though.
And before people start getting all angry, I'm talking specifically street use. Track is different. 305 drag radials on a prepped surface are MUCH better than 275s. But, the street doesn't care about such things.
First, if you want a M6, Challenger is the only choice. The NB is much prettier, cleaner and is closer to the retro styling. I figured the main advantage of the WB was bigger tires, until I read Xylander. My stock P0AS are slippery, and get worse in the cold, I have 275/305 PS4S summer’s on order for the warm weather, now X has me thinking I should do 275’s all around. I would prefer a Charger but a M6 is more important. I thought a RE Charger would be cool, but after reading X…. He makes me feel better about what I have, thanks X!
Well, I will say this: 305s are easier to drive. They will be more forgiving. But they will have a similar traction profile at low RPM. To launch both, you'll need to know how to do a good bump start. I generally pop off the line and lift a little off the accelerator, once its rolling at 10-15mph, then I go WOT with a smooth roll on (half second to the floor). The trick is to get the momentum shifting back, and to go WOT about the time the car nears max "squat." This gives you full rear traveling inertia which compresses the rear suspension and takes the slack out. This will give you the best bite onto a street takeoff that I've found. But, if you just try to drive it hard from a full stop, the tires will float on top of the pavement because it breaks out before the inertia shifts over the rear.
You can do the same with the 305s, and you'll likely find your sweet spot a bit easier. When you do though, you are carrying more weight, so all things being equal, a perfect launch on a 275 and a perfect launch on a 305 is going to give pretty much identical results. I've borrowed a friend's WB and test driven WB Redeyes and Hellcats many times, and yes, there is more stability with the 305s. My beef with them is that for straight line performance, I really can tell no difference between the two because 717hp is just too much power to treat it like a GT-R.
One thing I haven't done is drive a 305 with the tires of GOD (Michelin PS4S or Super Sport summer tire). I can't say enough good things about these tires. At 275, on a really hot 80+ degree day, I can launch using launch control @ 1,800 RPM and the car just scoots. That being said, I'd love to see how they handle from a dig at that 305 size.
And, fun fact. I got my stripes by starting out racing a big cam 1970 Torino 429 SCJ in the Pro Stock class back in 1994. I was using 245/50/15s on a 550-600hp car back then.
Edit: One thing to remember: If you're using the stock wheels, the 275 and 305 are going to have the identical contact patch on the ground, so you'd be wasting money unless you increase the rear wheel size to compensate.
Great info, thanks, and you are waaaay out of my league. I’m not a racer, just a slacker looking to enjoy the ride. I don’t push cars hard in corners anymore (I’ve slipped off the road more than once in my lifetime, and I really like this car) I just like to lean on it on entrance ramps and the like, but tired of feathering it all the way through 2nd. Orig plan was 305’s on 10.5’s, but if I will not see any benefit, 275’s and 9.5’s all around would be more convenient.
BTW: My friend has the PSS on his Vette, I looked, not available in stock (front) 275/40ZR20.
Ive never driven a WB anything. People who have had both tell me its better overall. I dont doubt it. Ive had a NB HC and now the 1320. I think my Fav is a good set of wider rims with the correct offsets and the lil devil flares. NB vs WB challenger Id take the NB. I like the old school look.
Charger though, the WB looks sooooo much better on that car. If I had to have only one, Charger WB Redeye.
Charger though, the WB looks sooooo much better on that car. If I had to have only one, Charger WB Redeye.
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The PS4S is the replacement for the PSS, and is a better overall tire. You can get them in a 275/40Z/R20.BTW: My friend has the PSS on his Vette, I looked, not available in stock (front) 275/40ZR20.
To be honest, tires are like shoes. Try some out. You might like them better. I'm speaking in terms of pure physics here. Spending money on 305s isn't going to give you $500 more worth of performance. It'll look more aggressive, and it will handle differently. Wider tires will catch road grooves more often (a negative) and their traction profile (how the car operates under power) will differ. The 275s on my car predictably allow for about 10 degrees of torque steer on most launches. The 305s may do the same, but the recovery may waddle a little depending on the tire's down pressure and tread patch. Or, they may not. I really don't know and the brand/type of tire will perform differently from one to the next. All I'm getting at is to say you're not wrong by wanting to try some out. Reviews and internet forums are great for getting a general idea of what to expect, but again like shoes, you won't really know if they're right for you unless you try a set out.Great info, thanks, and you are waaaay out of my league. I’m not a racer, just a slacker looking to enjoy the ride. I don’t push cars hard in corners anymore (I’ve slipped off the road more than once in my lifetime, and I really like this car) I just like to lean on it on entrance ramps and the like, but tired of feathering it all the way through 2nd. Orig plan was 305’s on 10.5’s, but if I will not see any benefit, 275’s and 9.5’s all around would be more convenient.
BTW: My friend has the PSS on his Vette, I looked, not available in stock (front) 275/40ZR20.
I'm what I call a recovering drag racer. I don't street race much anymore beyond playing around stop light to stop light and the only drag events I do are nostalgia classic all motor exhibition. My 'Cat is my daily grocery getter, so my points here are all focused on street driveability and performance. Just make sure you keep that in mind, as there are others here who are more pure performance minded who can give better advice in that regard.
To show how good the PSS was, I turned a 9.89 using 315/35/20 summer tires at the drag strip on my 2015 Mustang GT (the 1,024whp car I mentioned before). And yes, the PS4S is better. I use the All seasons on mine and they're better than any summer compound tire I've ever used outside of a drag radial.
Not a fan of the widebody in either vehicle. Both look like a JC Whitney add-on. I appreciate the extra rubber but the flares should be half the size and obviously would look much better if they were actually part of the fenders.
I really prefer the look of the Lil' Devil Fender flares and there's more than enough room with these flares to get a massive tire in there. I had 335/30/20's on the back of my Challenger Hellcat with the Lil' Devil flares and the flares look like they were part of the original design, not an afterthought.
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I really prefer the look of the Lil' Devil Fender flares and there's more than enough room with these flares to get a massive tire in there. I had 335/30/20's on the back of my Challenger Hellcat with the Lil' Devil flares and the flares look like they were part of the original design, not an afterthought.
Thanks, she's gone now. Sold her about 5 months ago.
Looks are subjective.
NB and WB both look great to me but I think the Redeye Charger WB looks the best and is the most desirable (imo) but I couldn't justify the price difference over the NB RE with all the discounts at the time. I also don't really need 4-doors.
Id also think the NB Redeye challenger with the 2.62 gear would also be the best for roll racing(60-130, 1/2 and 1 mile) and top speed, as it's lighter (200lbs difference)with the less drag than the WB.
NB and WB both look great to me but I think the Redeye Charger WB looks the best and is the most desirable (imo) but I couldn't justify the price difference over the NB RE with all the discounts at the time. I also don't really need 4-doors.
Id also think the NB Redeye challenger with the 2.62 gear would also be the best for roll racing(60-130, 1/2 and 1 mile) and top speed, as it's lighter (200lbs difference)with the less drag than the WB.
Standard challenger. Wouldn't have it any other way. I wanted a muscle car not a sedan.
20x10.5, 295/35/20
Bro, nothing is sexier than the widebody challenger hellcat. Stick it next to a GTR, C8, ZL1 1LE, and you’ll still be in the game. Not so much a charger, looks too family friendly. And when the time comes that you want the widebody cause you will best to do it now.
What exactly are you saying "stick it next to a GTR, C8, ZL1 1lE, and you'll still be in the game."?
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