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5028 Views 29 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Ohyupppp
Soon to get tuned in two weeks... car has cat delete muffler delete lmi intake 100mm throttle body and ported snout. Stock pulleys. Upgraded coils. What do u think I’ll make. I do use custom mix of fuel
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If the car hasn't been tuned yet, the car is running at or under stock horsepower. All those bolt ons with no tune = running rich and it's just retiming itself and likely just wet fouling plugs all day. All those bolt ons don't do much of anything, as the air mass is kinda determined by the blower size and shoving more fuel in it is really, really doing nothing. The stock TB doesn't open past 75% on our cars as it is. Slapping a bigger one on there is not going to do anything unless you have a place for all that extra fuel+air to go. AKA ported heads, larger blower or some such. This isn't a NA 4.6L 3v Mustang engine that came with an anemic TB.

The only power gain you would be getting was from whatever fuel cocktail you're using... which is also an equally bad idea. As again, if it isn't tuned for it, the car will actively try and just blow it out the tailpipe as it tries to maintain the tune's parameters. Now, after it's tuned, there's some gains to be had, but we're talking like 10-20hp (more on e85)... not 100 :)

Also, don't forget that running catless is illegal and can get your car impounded. Running a rich, performance fuel is kinda like zipping past the police station at 55mph in 1st gear as you can smell it from 20 cars away without the cats on. I personally think this build of yours is a bit misguided. It's either not going to work like you think it will, or every cop in eyeball range is going to know you're running catless. At some point, you're going to run across a cop looking to bag a driver on a $6,000 fine ($3,000 per missing cat).
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I’ll post up my dyno sheet when I have it.. no way my car is running under power if I pulled on a red eye 😂
The thing about building cars... it's all governed by the laws of physics. If you have a container that can only hold X amount of volume... if that container is full, trying to put more stuff in it with a larger funnel (throttle body) isn't going to do anything. In stock trim, the Hellcat's throttle body is already more powerful than what the car can use. If you don't believe me, have your tuner show you the throttle body settings in the tune and note how the factory setting has it set at 75% max open.

Thus, putting a larger throttle body on a car with stock heads and a stock blower is a grandiose waste of money. That's because, coupled with injectors you don't need and higher octane fuel you don't need, and the result is the computer is literally dumping that stuff right into your catalytic converters.

Now, if you add components that requires the additional flow and octane rating, that would be a different story. Higher octane does not = more power. Not on cars made for 93 fuel. The higher octane is needed for reducing knock under high compression. So, if you are running a pulley, you can run higher octane instead of doing an E85 conversion. The only problem with that, is the fuel is about 5x more expensive and you have to have a very good tuner to tune the engine for high octane or, quite literally, KABOOM at WOT. FWIW, 104 octane for me is about $14/gallon. I have a race car that runs on it. Expensive stuff.

Every mod you listed is reducing horsepower and efficiency on an untuned stock component vehicle. So, if you pulled on a Redeye, they lifted or something. The adaptive PCM in your car is simply adjusting timing for the rich environment you're creating so that it runs within expected parameters. Without the tune and without actual mods, the car is making no gains at present. For example, the LMI is a good intake, it's just that the Hellcat isn't an NA or intercooled car and a reduced IAT does nada since the air mass is after cooled. Folks like us with aftermarket CAIs do it for the sound, as they don't produce any HP whatsoever.
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The problem with the Hellcats is that they've been around since 2015 and pretty much everyone knows what they're capable of at this point. Dodge isn't leaving much on the table. That's why it costs a few grand in pulley, tune and fuel pumps to get to 800... and why it costs an arm and a leg to get to 900 and beyond. Again, they're not like the older Fords and Chevy engines that had restrictive intakes, throttle bodies, exhaust manifolds and hyper restrictive tunes. The Hellcat is pretty much "tuned up" for its stock configuration without much left on the bone until you pulley it.

To legit beat a Redeye, you're going to have to pulley it and swap injectors. Without doing the pumps, you're leaving HP on the table. Without the pulley, you're not going to make it past 730-750hp at the crank unless you go E85 or tune it for methanol injection and/or a low shot of squeeze.
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I’m barely just learned how to data log and don’t really know all the details and what to look for exactly but I’d like to know how this cam moves air. When I asked for the specs of the cam the guy at EMP just said it was their best cam. Whatever that means, and it’s completely locked out. The shop that ended up tuning it don’t like them locked out. It’s a bit disappointing when I have a 422 stroker, built heads, with a Redeye supercharger w/ 2.65 upper/10% lower. And not even making 900rwhp. The shop said they think this cam just sacrifices HP for TQ since it made over 100 more TQ than their 1000rwhp package does. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Sounds like you have a "proper" drag cam. Remember, higher torque = more acceleration. HP is all well and good, but large torque is what is going to decrease your 60ft times and provide more acceleration. Lots of folks get stuck on the HP number as its a badge of honor for many, but torque and torque management is what wins races.

Many I know would throw a nitrous shot on top of that to boost HP above 3,000rpm along with the fat cam.
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