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Whp?

5003 Views 29 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Ohyupppp, Nov 18, 2021

Ohyupppp

Discussion Starter · Oct 16, 2021

Soon to get tuned in two weeks... car has cat delete muffler delete lmi intake 100mm throttle body and ported snout. Stock pulleys. Upgraded coils. What do u think I’ll make. I do use custom mix of fuel

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Xylander

· #21 · Oct 19, 2021

Jcan422 said:
I’m barely just learned how to data log and don’t really know all the details and what to look for exactly but I’d like to know how this cam moves air. When I asked for the specs of the cam the guy at EMP just said it was their best cam. Whatever that means, and it’s completely locked out. The shop that ended up tuning it don’t like them locked out. It’s a bit disappointing when I have a 422 stroker, built heads, with a Redeye supercharger w/ 2.65 upper/10% lower. And not even making 900rwhp. The shop said they think this cam just sacrifices HP for TQ since it made over 100 more TQ than their 1000rwhp package does. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Sounds like you have a "proper" drag cam. Remember, higher torque = more acceleration. HP is all well and good, but large torque is what is going to decrease your 60ft times and provide more acceleration. Lots of folks get stuck on the HP number as its a badge of honor for many, but torque and torque management is what wins races.

Many I know would throw a nitrous shot on top of that to boost HP above 3,000rpm along with the fat cam.

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16GoManGoHC

· #22 · Oct 19, 2021

Jcan422 said:
I’m barely just learned how to data log and don’t really know all the details and what to look for exactly but I’d like to know how this cam moves air. When I asked for the specs of the cam the guy at EMP just said it was their best cam. Whatever that means, and it’s completely locked out. The shop that ended up tuning it don’t like them locked out. It’s a bit disappointing when I have a 422 stroker, built heads, with a Redeye supercharger w/ 2.65 upper/10% lower. And not even making 900rwhp. The shop said they think this cam just sacrifices HP for TQ since it made over 100 more TQ than their 1000rwhp package does. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Your HP vs Tq difference is exactly why I was asking if the cam is totally locked out or not as I would have suggested try retarding it a bit and see if the shift shed some torque and gave you some HP. Do you know if the shop degreed the cam when they installed it or just lined it up by marks assumed it was correct and that’s what you have? The cam may be installed a little in the advanced side and that’s why it’s producing so much Tq but your high end HP is suffering because it’s being starved for air up top because of where the cam is set and locked to. I agree, your Tq number looks great but hp is looking low for your build. What kind of dyno these figures come off?

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Jcan422

· #23 · Oct 19, 2021

Xylander said:
Sounds like you have a "proper" drag cam. Remember, higher torque = more acceleration. HP is all well and good, but large torque is what is going to decrease your 60ft times and provide more acceleration. Lots of folks get stuck on the HP number as its a badge of honor for many, but torque and torque management is what wins races.

Many I know would throw a nitrous shot on top of that to boost HP above 3,000rpm along with the fat cam.

A shot of nitrous isn’t really out of the question. You’re right about people chasing hp numbers. I don’t want to go down that route but then why did I spend 30k on a built motor if I don’t try to get the most out of it?

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Jcan422

· #24 · Oct 19, 2021

16GoManGoHC said:
Your HP vs Tq difference is exactly why I was asking if the cam is totally locked out or not as I would have suggested try retarding it a bit and see if the shift shed some torque and gave you some HP. Do you know if the shop degreed the cam when they installed it or just lined it up by marks assumed it was correct and that’s what you have? The cam may be installed a little in the advanced side and that’s why it’s producing so much Tq but your high end HP is suffering because it’s being starved for air up top because of where the cam is set and locked to. I agree, your Tq number looks great but hp is looking low for your build. What kind of dyno these figures come off?

I’m not sure tbh, but it’s safe to say this shop knows what they’re doing. They build a handful of hellcat engines a month.
Here’s the dyno sheet

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16GoManGoHC

· #25 · Oct 19, 2021

OK, Dynojet I only ask as different brands give different figures. That is an impressive amount of torque no doubt, and torque is time no doubt but Horsepower is speed, you need a good mix of both. Getting that much torque to hook up is going to be tough even on good prep and big tires but at least with a auto you can try and tune allot of it out down low to launch but now your purposely taking away power you paid to get. I’m by far not a cam expert but that offset of tq vs hp is not the norm unless spray is involved. I’d be wanting to know from the builder was cam actually degreed or just installed by the marks? I know many a pro engine builder that have gotten it wrong, including a recent one where cam was installed 1 tooth off, it wasn’t his first rodeo either, luckily it didn’t crash the engine but he knew from VVT position it was wrong on startup. I build engines myself, I spent 2 days degreeing mine over and over and over again never having to adjust it but wanting to know it was 1000000% correct no doubt before putting it all back together, crashing 2700$ pistons into the valves was not an option. What timing chain set did you use? Stock Hellcat/Redeye set with pinned VVT unit or aftermarket with indexable crank gear and solid cam gear? Did you contact EMP and ask them their opinion of the Tq and HP figures and see what their opinion is?

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Jcan422

· #26 · Oct 19, 2021

Well now that you mention it, talking to the builder the first time he did ask if I would be spraying and I said possibly yes. So maybe that’s why.
Long story short, I blew my original motor. Got a 422 built, but the shop that I got it sent to here in Houston sat on it for over a year to do the swap. Excuse after excuse. Had to threaten with legal actions to finally get my car back. After the 500 easy mile break in period, team hellcat tuned it. It would knock over 50% load. Took it to another shop to see what the issue was and after diagnosing everything, they said they ruled everything out and believe it was piston slap. Broke down the motor and sure enough, pistons and cylinder walls showed symptoms. First shop used stock bore pistons instead of the next size up. Called them and sent them emails exchanged with the shop and an MMX rep saying that’s definitely piston slap due to too much clearance, but they said f*** you and that it wasn’t their fault so I ended up getting it built a second time.
It’s an after market timing chain set and as you could imagine, I wouldn’t contact EMP for anything ever again. As far as degreeing the cam I’m not sure but like you mention, I’m sure that’s something they would have realized from the beginning. I’m considering doing the shops cam swap and being happy with the power then. Also, I like throwing my own gears. M6 here

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Ohyupppp

Discussion Starter · #27 · Oct 19, 2021

Jcan422 said:
Looking forward to see what your car is making.
16GoManGoHC, which cam are you running? I have an EMP cam and I’m making 880rwhp but 950rwtq. I was hoping to be at 1000+rwhp but the shop said that’s the most they can squeeze out of it with this cam.

me too man just wish it was the 29th already haha... once I get dyno sheet I’ll for sure post it up.

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V8_Thrpy

· #28 · Oct 30, 2021

What were the results OP?

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Ohyupppp

Discussion Starter · #29 · Oct 30, 2021

Dropped off car today. Pick up tomorrow 😧. We shall see what I make on the mustang dyno...

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Ohyupppp

Discussion Starter · #30 · Nov 18, 2021

Ok gents finally got the car tuned today... I had pcm issues and had to resend the pcm to hp... then had to wait for the tuner to have an opening 🥴... like I said b4 car is stock boost stock injectors stock fuel pump... mods are cat delete muffler delete legmaker 100mm throttle body and ported snout. I think it’s pretty good for not e85 on a mustang dyno...

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