SRT Hellcat Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this months Ride of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat
Joined
·
296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good afternoon family. So my question is for anyone will to give me their 2cents. Why did dodge do this to us and make traction our number one enemy by putting 275(pre wide body). I love my car but when I want to get on it and go it’s always hard too. And I know what some people are going to say about buying wider rims and wider tires an so forth. There are other manufacturers that put wider rims straight from the factory and cost the same amount 70k 80k to 100k. I wonder why dodge though that 700hp would work on 275. What was the logic. Thanks for any input.
 

·
Registered
Charger SRT 392
Joined
·
194 Posts
its all in the tires. I can get traction no problem with 275 and the right tire compound. if you buy all seasons your gonna have a tire that works in all seasons but isnt great at it, if you buy a performance tire its going to suck everywhere but warm dry pavement. thats why dodge puts drag radials on its "drag cars". you cant expect to get traction on a 700hp car in the rain and snow, or even sub 70* weather.
 

·
Registered
2020 Challenger Hellcat
Joined
·
895 Posts
Good afternoon family. So my question is for anyone will to give me their 2cents. Why did dodge do this to us and make traction our number one enemy by putting 275(pre wide body). I love my car but when I want to get on it and go it’s always hard too. And I know what some people are going to say about buying wider rims and wider tires an so forth. There are other manufacturers that put wider rims straight from the factory and cost the same amount 70k 80k to 100k. I wonder why dodge though that 700hp would work on 275. What was the logic. Thanks for any input.
Honest answer, on the street, there is not much difference between 275s and 335s on 600+ lb.ft. of off-idle torque. The reason why the Mustangs, Corvettes, ZL-1s, and so forth fare better is not because they have a magical suspension or special tires. They make far less power off-idle. Street surfaces can't handle that kind of torque, similar to how dirt roads are real easy to burn out on, even in a Prius.

More tire is better, but even a 345mm tire is not going to make the car launch at 2,200 rpm without wheel spin. Most manufacturers use wider tires for handling. The Hellcat is not designed as a corner carver (even the WB). Thus, the tire width gives diminishing returns on high torque applications on the street. I'll sum this up by a gun story.

I went to the range a couple months ago with a new gun. After putting 400 rounds through it on two separate occasions, I took it to the gunsmith and said, "This gun is shooting low and to the left, nearly every time in tight groups. I need to get the sights adjusted."
The guy handed it back to me and said that I needed to learn how to shoot first. I looked at him a bit odd and said, "I know how to shoot. I have sharshooter ratings from the military with both rifle and pistol qualifications. I know how to shoot."
He said he didn't care and again, told me to go learn how to shoot. I was honestly starting to get pissed. He said, "Look, I know the kind of guns you shoot. All of them are fairly heavy 1911s, heavy rifles, .357s, and the like. Right? This piece of sh*t is a light composite 9mm, which I really don't like, but it is dead on accurate. You're just grabbing the trigger and it's nose diving. Learn to shoot, sir."
He was right. Pissed as I was at his lack of tact, I went back to the range and first set up an autofiring rig and fired a magazine remotely. Pistol was perfectly accurate. I spent some time on trigger pull discipline and learned to shoot that gun well. Then I sold it because I hated the feel of the gun.

Now, back to the Hellcat. My advice is to learn to drive it. I can pull 0-60 unassisted sub 3.5s on Michelin Pilot Sport All Season tires (275s). Granted, their traction rating is better than the stock Pirelli summer tire's, which isn't saying much. The trick to driving a Hellcat is understanding the torque of the car and how off-idle power and instant-on power unsettles the rear end. When I got my Hellcat, I kid you not, I spent 2 full tanks of gas in a single day as I practiced launching the car. I found an abandoned industrial park area with a parking lot almost a half mile long. I went 0-60 and 0-100 again, and again, and again, until I could routinely put down sub 4 second 0-60 times. The trick is to train your right foot to not go zero to hero so fast and how to feather the throttle on initial input. All cars will be different, so the only way you can get any better is to learn how your car communicates and respond to what it's telling you.

When you get to sub 4 seconds on the factory tires, then you can think about improving things with larger or better tires. Once you understand how the car works and how to get it to do what you want it to do, then you can spend money on fine tuning that performance to your liking.

Or you could just slap 305s on it, and it'll be great for a week! Then, as the new tire stickyness wears off, you'll be right back to where you started, running similar times because a Hellcat going up in smoke isn't a symptom of the tire, it's a symptom of the incorrect amount of driver input at the wrong time. Better tires will allow for more input at the proper time, but will not correct for improper input at the wrong time.
 

·
Super Moderator
Jeep GC Trackhawk
Joined
·
2,517 Posts
Good afternoon family. So my question is for anyone will to give me their 2cents. Why did dodge do this to us and make traction our number one enemy by putting 275(pre wide body). I love my car but when I want to get on it and go it’s always hard too. And I know what some people are going to say about buying wider rims and wider tires an so forth. There are other manufacturers that put wider rims straight from the factory and cost the same amount 70k 80k to 100k. I wonder why dodge though that 700hp would work on 275. What was the logic. Thanks for any input.

By making the tire/traction the "weak link", FCA saves a lot of $$$ on drivetrain warranty issues. JMO



.
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT 392
Joined
·
7,146 Posts
Good afternoon family. So my question is for anyone will to give me their 2cents. Why did dodge do this to us and make traction our number one enemy by putting 275(pre wide body). I love my car but when I want to get on it and go it’s always hard too. And I know what some people are going to say about buying wider rims and wider tires an so forth. There are other manufacturers that put wider rims straight from the factory and cost the same amount 70k 80k to 100k. I wonder why dodge though that 700hp would work on 275. What was the logic. Thanks for any input.
It had nothing to do with anything except that the 275 is the biggest tire that will fit on this old body. Now of course, guys have fit bigger tires but at greatly reduced tire to fender clearance and a major automaker cannot sell cars like that, they have a much greater safety margin to adhere to, and the 275 is it.

So now we have the Widebody yet it still only has 305's, so that gives you an idea of how conservative they feel they need to be regarding tire clearance.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2021 Durango Hellcat
Joined
·
6,026 Posts
By making the tire/traction the "weak link", FCA saves a lot of $$$ on drivetrain warranty issues. JMO



.
This, and its probably cheaper too and makes for smokey burnouts which most owners seem to find really cool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WVHEMIS

·
Registered
2021 Durango Hellcat
Joined
·
6,026 Posts
Honest answer, on the street, there is not much difference between 275s and 335s on 600+ lb.ft. of off-idle torque. The reason why the Mustangs, Corvettes, ZL-1s, and so forth fare better is not because they have a magical suspension or special tires. They make far less power off-idle. Street surfaces can't handle that kind of torque, similar to how dirt roads are real easy to burn out on, even in a Prius.
Nope, tell me again about this Hellcat torque vs LT4 torque off-idle. I've had a Hellcat and my current ZL1 and the ZL1 launches better with stock 305 width tires compared to the Hellcat's stock 275 width and yes, tire width makes a HUGE difference. The LT4 actually makes slightly more torque off-idle than the Hellcat. This is not a knock against the Hellcat engine, just stating facts. The tires are a weak link in the Hellcat platform for the standard body.
570925
570926
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye Wide Body
Joined
·
9,861 Posts
As mentioned above, the real answer is the Hellcat wasnt even thought about back in 2008 when this body debuted. As time went on they realized they could sell upper models with power but had to be deathly afraid of making any changes to what was becoming a wildly popular retro model. By the time they realized that buyers were screaming for wider tires it was too far along in the platform to make those types of changes so bolt on flares had to suffice. But the 305’s dont exactly hold up to 717 or 797 hp anyway but it does allow for even wider sticky rubber. A bandaid maybe but I dont care, I love the WB.
 

·
Registered
2020 Challenger Hellcat
Joined
·
895 Posts
Nope, tell me again about this Hellcat torque vs LT4 torque off-idle. I've had a Hellcat and my current ZL1 and the ZL1 launches better with stock 305 width tires compared to the Hellcat's stock 275 width and yes, tire width makes a HUGE difference. The LT4 actually makes slightly more torque off-idle than the Hellcat. This is not a knock against the Hellcat engine, just stating facts. The tires are a weak link in the Hellcat platform for the standard body.
View attachment 570925 View attachment 570926
All well and good, but your graph in fact shows that the Hellcat is making more torque off idle than the Corvette. The scales have different start points. The point of my post though was to indicate that the wider tires can help, but if a person can "never give it any gas" without breaking out, then the driver mod is what needs work... because we can clearly make sub 4 second 0-60s on the stock tires. Better tires improve things, you won't get an argument from me on that. But, a person will be a better driver and get better tread life out of their new expensive tires if they first learn how to control the car on the stock tread.

If all a person wants to do is have the ability to stomp the gas as hard and as fast as they can from a dig and launch straight and true... then they need to get into a GT-R, because even with 305s, 315s, or 335s on a Hellcat, you still aren't going to be able to do that. So, it's best to train out the low power car habits. That's the Cliff's Notes version of what I was getting at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
316 Posts
Dodge also gave you a supercharged engine, with 707hp, in a factory warranty package, in what its considered to be a bargain, at a fraction of the cost a supercar goes for. Tires are cheap all things considering so......what did Dodge did to you again?
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Challenger Hellcat Redeye Wide Body
Joined
·
9,861 Posts
Dodge also gave you a supercharged engine, with 707hp, in a factory warranty package, in what its considered to be a bargain, at a fraction of the cost a supercar goes for. Tires are cheap all things considering so......what did Dodge did to you again?
Super cars hook up. Dodge? Hmm. I dont think op’s
point was financially related at all. We all know the bang for buck factor is awesome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
I JUST put these on today and it s WORLD of difference.
Nitto Motivo’s
Front 275/40/20
Rear 315/35/20

The car feels soooo much better andmore planted. Maybe this helps...
8A938258-6009-407E-AEFC-6CB4F5B93A22.jpeg
F970BC39-3B02-4138-99FD-81E37D9CAFB6.jpeg
 

·
Registered
2021 Durango Hellcat
Joined
·
6,026 Posts
All well and good, but your graph in fact shows that the Hellcat is making more torque off idle than the Corvette. The scales have different start points. The point of my post though was to indicate that the wider tires can help, but if a person can "never give it any gas" without breaking out, then the driver mod is what needs work... because we can clearly make sub 4 second 0-60s on the stock tires. Better tires improve things, you won't get an argument from me on that. But, a person will be a better driver and get better tread life out of their new expensive tires if they first learn how to control the car on the stock tread.

If all a person wants to do is have the ability to stomp the gas as hard and as fast as they can from a dig and launch straight and true... then they need to get into a GT-R, because even with 305s, 315s, or 335s on a Hellcat, you still aren't going to be able to do that. So, it's best to train out the low power car habits. That's the Cliff's Notes version of what I was getting at.
Nope, check again. The graphs do start at different points but you can clearly see the LT4 is higher starting at 1000rpm and just continues from there. Maybe you mixed them up. The LT4 looks to be around 450ft lbs at 1000rpm, the Hellcat just over 400ft lbs.

I agree with the rest of what you stated, some skill is still required for best performance, however 275s are way too small for a car of this performance level. As well-engineered as the Hellcat is in stock trim for all performance components, the tire size is baffling.
 

·
Administrator
Challenger SRT Hellcat
Joined
·
7,347 Posts
All well and good, but your graph in fact shows that the Hellcat is making more torque off idle than the Corvette. The scales have different start points. The point of my post though was to indicate that the wider tires can help, but if a person can "never give it any gas" without breaking out, then the driver mod is what needs work... because we can clearly make sub 4 second 0-60s on the stock tires. Better tires improve things, you won't get an argument from me on that. But, a person will be a better driver and get better tread life out of their new expensive tires if they first learn how to control the car on the stock tread.

If all a person wants to do is have the ability to stomp the gas as hard and as fast as they can from a dig and launch straight and true... then they need to get into a GT-R, because even with 305s, 315s, or 335s on a Hellcat, you still aren't going to be able to do that. So, it's best to train out the low power car habits. That's the Cliff's Notes version of what I was getting at.
Another thing to consider is the 4.71 1st gear ratio. With the 2.62 that is 12.340.
An older muscle car had roughly 2.65 1st gear so that would need a 4.65 rear gear to have the same gearing. Old cars did not have insta torque as you mentioned. LOL

I have to agree with you on learning the car and adapting to what you can get away with.
Great advice.
I did similar to you and went to a track and did all kinds of passes to learn the car.
 

·
Registered
Challenger SRT Hellcat
Joined
·
3,479 Posts
Nope, check again. The graphs do start at different points but you can clearly see the LT4 is higher starting at 1000rpm and just continues from there. Maybe you mixed them up. The LT4 looks to be around 450ft lbs at 1000rpm, the Hellcat just over 400ft lbs.

I agree with the rest of what you stated, some skill is still required for best performance, however 275s are way too small for a car of this performance level.
The LT4 has a smaller blower so it makes power sooner but falls off.

R.K.
 

·
Registered
2021 Durango Hellcat
Joined
·
6,026 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: DevilsReject97
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top