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can you guys show us ANY fully loaded big V8 car, with less than 4k miles on the odometer, with adaptive suspension, nav screen/electronics, and 6 piston brembo brakes, which can be had for less than $46k in today's used car market? lets start from there.
Cars.com shows a 13k 2016 Mustang GT Premium for 31k. I didn't dig into it to see if it was a PP car or not.

I try not to nit-pick when I look at Challengers. But it's getting harder not to. It might be a 2015, but tech-wise, it's a 2012. The current prices are resultant from an overly inflated bubble. At some point it's going to pop, and the non-Hellcats with their 2008-2012 tech stack are going to be the first to go. I know we're all Mopar fans here, but just go to another brand dealership (Ford, Chevy, etc) and just look what you get in a 2022 from them vs. what you're paying for and not getting in a more expensive Dodge. The 2015 in this post is even more slammed further down the tech pole and the price is just ludicrous for what you get.

I mean, for 46k you can get a NEW 2022 Mustang Premium (401A). For 51k, it can get the Performance pack. And, for 53k, you can fully load it with performance options and their Magneride suspension. I know, it's not a Mopar etc. etc., but for just about the same price, you can get a car with the same HP, considerably less weight, and up-to-date modern integrated features. In the 2015 Challenger... you get the model year with the bad UConnect screen, a low res camera, poorly integrated smart phone compatibility, and that's just about it with no warranty. Unlike the Mopars, the 2022 Mustang GTs are plentiful on dealer lots. The Mach 1s are quite a bit more expensive, but the 401A GTs are still sensibly priced. FWIW, the stock 2022 GT is considerably faster than even the 2022 Scat Packs... and vs. the older M6 2015 392, it's not even close.

That's how I tend to compare cars. Someone has to LOVE the Mopar to want to buy it... and that love has to be more emotional than practical because the Mopar doesn't have very many positive comparison points to pretty much anything at this stage in its life cycle.
 

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Just for giggles, here's a 2,000 mile Prune-Sanity (Hellraisen) 2021 Widebody Scat Pack R/T automatic that just popped up at my local dealer. They want $58,125 for a car that originally MSRP'd at $57,775

View attachment 597319

View attachment 597320

View attachment 597321

Here's the orginal window sticker online:

View attachment 597322
Don't forget the $4750 in Power Dollar discount.
And likely some sort of below invoice pricing.
That car was probably 49 and change plus TTL for whoever bought it new.
 

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Cars.com shows a 13k 2016 Mustang GT Premium for 31k. I didn't dig into it to see if it was a PP car or not.

I try not to nit-pick when I look at Challengers. But it's getting harder not to. It might be a 2015, but tech-wise, it's a 2012. The current prices are resultant from an overly inflated bubble. At some point it's going to pop, and the non-Hellcats with their 2008-2012 tech stack are going to be the first to go. I know we're all Mopar fans here, but just go to another brand dealership (Ford, Chevy, etc) and just look what you get in a 2022 from them vs. what you're paying for and not getting in a more expensive Dodge. The 2015 in this post is even more slammed further down the tech pole and the price is just ludicrous for what you get.

I mean, for 46k you can get a NEW 2022 Mustang Premium (401A). For 51k, it can get the Performance pack. And, for 53k, you can fully load it with performance options and their Magneride suspension. I know, it's not a Mopar etc. etc., but for just about the same price, you can get a car with the same HP, considerably less weight, and up-to-date modern integrated features. In the 2015 Challenger... you get the model year with the bad UConnect screen, a low res camera, poorly integrated smart phone compatibility, and that's just about it with no warranty. Unlike the Mopars, the 2022 Mustang GTs are plentiful on dealer lots. The Mach 1s are quite a bit more expensive, but the 401A GTs are still sensibly priced. FWIW, the stock 2022 GT is considerably faster than even the 2022 Scat Packs... and vs. the older M6 2015 392, it's not even close.

That's how I tend to compare cars. Someone has to LOVE the Mopar to want to buy it... and that love has to be more emotional than practical because the Mopar doesn't have very many positive comparison points to pretty much anything at this stage in its life cycle.
A new Camaro SS 1LE can be had for 45k ish. Loaded is around 50k
Many years newer. 455hp but some would call it the best handling "muscle car" you can buy.

I get the logic.
I still love the Mopars, but they have gotten really expensive across the board. Even the TRX is now up 11k from when it came out.
 

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A new Camaro SS 1LE can be had for 45k ish. Loaded is around 50k
Many years newer. 455hp but some would call it the best handling "muscle car" you can buy.

I get the logic.
I still love the Mopars, but they have gotten really expensive across the board. Even the TRX is now up 11k from when it came out.
For me, I'm more stuck on the "tech." Anti theft systems, integrated convenience systems, camera tech, etc. That's because what the car looks like is all well and good, but it's the tech you have to live with when driving it. A bad tech stack detracts from enjoying the vehicle, for me anyway. That's why I have serious misgivings with overpaying for a used Dodge that was 3 years behind the times when it was new back in 2015.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
And it’s green

View attachment 597318

Too bad it’s got the manual with the jacked up 1st-4th ratios

Isn’t dude posed to drive it today? Can hardly wait to hear his impression of the combo
Unfortunately I never made it there I found a 2021 Redeye and would never be able to talk the wife into a 2nd Challenger. I was really looking forward to seeing and test driving this vehicle but…. I never made it there due to my recent purchase of my Hellcat. My apologies for this thread essentially being pointless, I really intended on driving and buying this thing if it was this good.
 

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Cars.com shows a 13k 2016 Mustang GT Premium for 31k. I didn't dig into it to see if it was a PP car or not.

I try not to nit-pick when I look at Challengers. But it's getting harder not to. It might be a 2015, but tech-wise, it's a 2012. The current prices are resultant from an overly inflated bubble. At some point it's going to pop, and the non-Hellcats with their 2008-2012 tech stack are going to be the first to go. I know we're all Mopar fans here, but just go to another brand dealership (Ford, Chevy, etc) and just look what you get in a 2022 from them vs. what you're paying for and not getting in a more expensive Dodge. The 2015 in this post is even more slammed further down the tech pole and the price is just ludicrous for what you get.

I mean, for 46k you can get a NEW 2022 Mustang Premium (401A). For 51k, it can get the Performance pack. And, for 53k, you can fully load it with performance options and their Magneride suspension. I know, it's not a Mopar etc. etc., but for just about the same price, you can get a car with the same HP, considerably less weight, and up-to-date modern integrated features. In the 2015 Challenger... you get the model year with the bad UConnect screen, a low res camera, poorly integrated smart phone compatibility, and that's just about it with no warranty. Unlike the Mopars, the 2022 Mustang GTs are plentiful on dealer lots. The Mach 1s are quite a bit more expensive, but the 401A GTs are still sensibly priced. FWIW, the stock 2022 GT is considerably faster than even the 2022 Scat Packs... and vs. the older M6 2015 392, it's not even close.

That's how I tend to compare cars. Someone has to LOVE the Mopar to want to buy it... and that love has to be more emotional than practical because the Mopar doesn't have very many positive comparison points to pretty much anything at this stage in its life cycle.
Correct me If Im wrong but isnt the 2015 interior on this car the same as the 2015 HC interior etc? Its not the tupperware interior of the 2008+ cars right or is it? Thought that went out in 2014. If its the 2015 interior I dont see the issue . I had a 2015 HC and didnt have an issue with it, and other than apple car play was the same to me as my 2018/2019 cars. what am I missing?
 

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Unfortunately I never made it there I found a 2021 Redeye and would never be able to talk the wife into a 2nd Challenger. I was really looking forward to seeing and test driving this vehicle but…. I never made it there due to my recent purchase of my Hellcat. My apologies for this thread essentially being pointless, I really intended on driving and buying this thing if it was this good.
So what all do you have? A hc a re and a ss on order?

Least you could do 4 pages later (ha) is test drive and report back
 
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I mean, for 46k you can get a NEW 2022 Mustang Premium (401A). For 51k, it can get the Performance pack. And, for 53k, you can fully load it with performance options and their Magneride suspension. I know, it's not a Mopar etc. etc., but for just about the same price, you can get a car with the same HP, considerably less weight, and up-to-date modern integrated features. In the 2015 Challenger... you get the model year with the bad UConnect screen, a low res camera, poorly integrated smart phone compatibility, and that's just about it with no warranty. Unlike the Mopars, the 2022 Mustang GTs are plentiful on dealer lots. The Mach 1s are quite a bit more expensive, but the 401A GTs are still sensibly priced. FWIW, the stock 2022 GT is considerably faster than even the 2022 Scat Packs... and vs. the older M6 2015 392, it's not even close.

That's how I tend to compare cars. Someone has to LOVE the Mopar to want to buy it..
This is true buuuuut, no one wants those lol. It's why theyre plentiful on lots and Mopars are not.
People ARE loving the Mopars. Theyre not buying them for the modern tech, quite the opposite actually. The whole retro thing. I don't believe a Mustang buyer and a Challenger buyer are the same.
 

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can you guys show us ANY fully loaded big V8 car, with less than 4k miles on the odometer, with adaptive suspension, nav screen/electronics, and 6 piston brembo brakes, which can be had for less than $46k in today's used car market? lets start from there.
Kind of putting us in a box with the 6 piston Brembos, SS have 4 piston all around so the six piston are more for show than necessity (I still like the giant red calipers).

That's how I tend to compare cars. Someone has to LOVE the Mopar to want to buy it... and that love has to be more emotional than practical because the Mopar doesn't have very many positive comparison points to pretty much anything at this stage in its life cycle.
This^^^^SickToo & G3SRT, you are focusing on the parts you find valuable, others may look at the handling vs. a ZL1 or interior vs. Genesis, for a fan $46K may be reasonable to get the sublime SRT, they'll probably sell it for that but you'll start seeing 2015 & 2016 HC's with 50K miles for that in the near future, I'd rather have the HC. I think we are peeking in the car market now and in 6 months things will be coming back to reality (raising the interest rates will put an end to the crazy market). Your trying to convince the choir about the value of a low millage well maintained Challenger, we are just saying what the market value should be for that car seven years after production, it's no where near the Demon league with limited production numbers making it more valuable.
 

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This is true buuuuut, no one wants those lol. It's why theyre plentiful on lots and Mopars are not.
People ARE loving the Mopars. Theyre not buying them for the modern tech, quite the opposite actually. The whole retro thing. I don't believe a Mustang buyer and a Challenger buyer are the same.
I dunno, historically, the Challenger is rarely an only car. In terms of Hellcats, the average Hellcat owner has 2 other vehicles. In my case, that was a Hellcat, a 2015 Mustang GT, and a Lotus Elise (and a Shelby GT350R before that). While the Challenger and Mustang are not 1:1 comparable, they are both back scratchers. One's a handheld Chinese back scratcher and the other's one of those electric deals. Both scratch the same itch, just in a different way.

That's why the cars are compared so often. They're both RWD V8 cars with similar stock power outputs (SP vs. GT). The interior layout is obviously different and their road handling is wildly different... but they're offered at similar price points and they're used, primarily, for spirited street driving most of the time. Personally, I think Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Hellcat, and SP drivers are very similar people. I won't dig too hard on the retro thing, as that's a styling cue. The Challenger's old tech, sloppy handling, and dated electronics aren't retro... that's just side effects of cost cutting, overall weight, a loss in R&D budget to pay for Tesla carbon credits, and just plain old fact in how the car market has modernized and moved on, and Dodge couldn't afford to do the same. Nobody looks back to the 90s Acuras and says, "Man, I miss those automatic sliding shoulder belts... that would be so retro if they did that today!" The Dodge tech isn't quite to that level of obsolescence, but it's getting there.
 

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A new Camaro SS 1LE can be had for 45k ish. Loaded is around 50k
Many years newer. 455hp but some would call it the best handling "muscle car" you can buy.

I get the logic.
I still love the Mopars, but they have gotten really expensive across the board. Even the TRX is now up 11k from when it came out.
I’ve had a 18 Camaro 2SS for 4 1/2 years and had a blast in that car. It handles great like an expensive sports car. Has plenty of power. The stock ride height is perfect. But it’s time to move on. I’m trading it in on a new Hellcat Challenger.
 

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I dunno, historically, the Challenger is rarely an only car. In terms of Hellcats, the average Hellcat owner has 2 other vehicles. In my case, that was a Hellcat, a 2015 Mustang GT, and a Lotus Elise (and a Shelby GT350R before that). While the Challenger and Mustang are not 1:1 comparable, they are both back scratchers. One's a handheld Chinese back scratcher and the other's one of those electric deals. Both scratch the same itch, just in a different way.

That's why the cars are compared so often. They're both RWD V8 cars with similar stock power outputs (SP vs. GT). The interior layout is obviously different and their road handling is wildly different... but they're offered at similar price points and they're used, primarily, for spirited street driving most of the time. Personally, I think Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Hellcat, and SP drivers are very similar people. I won't dig too hard on the retro thing, as that's a styling cue. The Challenger's old tech, sloppy handling, and dated electronics aren't retro... that's just side effects of cost cutting, overall weight, a loss in R&D budget to pay for Tesla carbon credits, and just plain old fact in how the car market has modernized and moved on, and Dodge couldn't afford to do the same. Nobody looks back to the 90s Acuras and says, "Man, I miss those automatic sliding shoulder belts... that would be so retro if they did that today!" The Dodge tech isn't quite to that level of obsolescence, but it's getting there.
Agree to disagree on some of that. Challenger was never meant to handle. They made the Viper for that, even if it was mostly track focused. Challenger handles sloppy by design and default. It’s big and heavy on purpose. Looking back in history the old Mopars were boats with extremely sloppy handling and obviously zero tech just by default due to the time period lol. Imo that contributes in a way to the retro theme. No fancy shmancy - just in your face brute power. Def part of the appeal. I think in that way they have done a great job of staying true to their roots. I do agree with you that they are currently behind in a lot of areas and if the tech and handling is what really matters to someone there are better choices obviously. But I can tell you that I myself have zero interest in a Mustang or a Vette regardless of performance and never cross shopped them. Actually I never cross shopped the Hellcat with anything else because no one else builds a comparable vehicle in the muscle cruiser category.
Also I dont see the tech being lacking to the degree of a 90’s Acura lol. Today’s basics are all there. There's just no need to forge ahead too far tech-wise in a brute cruiser that was never planned to go this far in the first place.
 

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This^^^^SickToo & G3SRT, you are focusing on the parts you find valuable, others may look at the handling vs. a ZL1 or interior vs. Genesis, for a fan $46K may be reasonable to get the sublime SRT, they'll probably sell it for that but you'll start seeing 2015 & 2016 HC's with 50K miles for that in the near future, I'd rather have the HC. I think we are peeking in the car market now and in 6 months things will be coming back to reality (raising the interest rates will put an end to the crazy market). Your trying to convince the choir about the value of a low millage well maintained Challenger, we are just saying what the market value should be for that car seven years after production, it's no where near the Demon league with limited production numbers making it more valuable.
not trying to convince anyone. I bought my 2016 challenger hellcat new for $67k and I think anyone trying to buy anything at all in the current used car market is nuts. I only wished I had bought a viper instead, so that I would be making a $100k profit now, regardless its mileage. The comment was based on the OP's question, aka is $46k a good price for that car. In today's market, where essentially the same configuration (new scat packs, etc) are sold for $70-80k at dealer lots, yes, it is a very good price. If he needs a Mopar now and before they go away, that would be a descent move, again, compared to what's available out there, now. I know the OP stated he has a hellcat and an ss on order, so obviously he doesnt need a mopar, but thats a different story.
 

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Agree to disagree on some of that. Challenger was never meant to handle. They made the Viper for that, even if it was mostly track focused. Challenger handles sloppy by design and default. It’s big and heavy on purpose. Looking back in history the old Mopars were boats with extremely sloppy handling and obviously zero tech just by default due to the time period lol. Imo that contributes in a way to the retro theme. No fancy shmancy - just in your face brute power. Def part of the appeal. I think in that way they have done a great job of staying true to their roots. I do agree with you that they are currently behind in a lot of areas and if the tech and handling is what really matters to someone there are better choices obviously. But I can tell you that I myself have zero interest in a Mustang or a Vette regardless of performance and never cross shopped them. Actually I never cross shopped the Hellcat with anything else because no one else builds a comparable vehicle in the muscle cruiser category.
Also I dont see the tech being lacking to the degree of a 90’s Acura lol. Today’s basics are all there. There's just no need to forge ahead too far tech-wise in a brute cruiser that was never planned to go this far in the first place.
it all depends on what you want or need in your car. I for example dont care about electronics and such amenities, rather the driving experience. The current challenger Uconnect system is fine for me, even with its sucky camera comparing to other systems out there. Maybe I am showing my age, but I consider simply having a camera a luxury and compared to what I was used to.
 
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