[Speedy]

@coanan that video is almost an hour long. Where does he show tying ethanol content to the bypass valve operation? I remember him saying there was some kind of "fail safe" but that it was kind of a last resort thing that just bled all the boost but he didn't seem super happy with how it worked from what I could tell.

 

[Blkout]

@coanan that video is almost an hour long. Where does he show tying ethanol content to the bypass valve operation? I remember him saying there was some kind of "fail safe" but that it was kind of a last resort thing that just bled all the boost but he didn't seem super happy with how it worked from what I could tell.

I gave up on that video around 15 minutes in.

 

[Demon Fan 777]

Here is 2 that i found in a quick search....

View attachment 639176

I have ever heard the expression "trust but verify"? Would you be kind enough to post your Dodge work orders? Certainly removing your personal information is understandable but many would like to see the specifics found by the Dodge dealer doing the work or that have completed the work. It helps folks seperate the real from the fake. Thank you.

 

[Demon Fan 777]

Lucky dog.

Just viewed an eye-popping video from OC Motivator. If correct the 170 will be the riskiest Hellcat of all - both in releable performance and resale value. He hypothesizes that dealers hording multiple 2023 Demons will dump them as warranties grow shorter, turning the baddest muscle car ever built into a large herd of white elephants.

Mostly phony news, and when people try to prove information to the contrary he deletes the posts. Every time this guy runs a story like this I look up the public sales and he only seem to post the low exceptions, never gives the fully story. I found a Demon 170 that had just sold that same time frame for over 170k on B&T. I stopped watching this guys because of his half truths which are of no value to anyone looking for accurate information. The Demon 170 haters love this guy, and best I can tell are his primary followers these days.

 

[coanan]

@coanan that video is almost an hour long. Where does he show tying ethanol content to the bypass valve operation? I remember him saying there was some kind of "fail safe" but that it was kind of a last resort thing that just bled all the boost but he didn't seem super happy with how it worked from what I could tell.

Go to 21 min mark he talks about it.

When he is on the dyno, he shows HP change on dash when he added E98, then the dyno numbers increase at full throttle.

He explains it all in vid.

 

[coanan]

I gave up on that video around 15 minutes in.

Of coarse you did. Maybe you should watch the whole thing and just skip past a few non-pertinent things.

 

[coanan]

He may have another vid explaining it better. Showing boost on 93 vs E85 would be nice.

 

[2ndgen]

I watched the video, to summarize he offers two different options:

1 his own flex fuel system that uses an ethanol sensor wired into the ECU with a custom tune

• uses his own sourced ethanol sensor with his own custom plumbing and harness modifications
• supports more models than the other option I think (HC, RE, TH, TRX but not sure if everything)
• does not show HP on the uconnect screen as fuel content changes
• does show fuel ethanol % somewhere, I think?
• /does/ have boost bypass table in the tune--will reduce boost to protect engine for WOT pulls on pump gas

however, he warns it's not something to rely on--just a safety measure--advises to run better gas when you plan to get on it.

2 his own adaption of the factory D170 flex fuel

• supports 2018+ Demon/RE/SS/HC--retrofits the factory D170 solution to these other models
• does not yet support any 2015-2017 nor TH/TRX
• uses D170 factory ECU
• uses D170 factory ethanol sensor
• shows HP on the uconnect screen as fuel content changes
• does not have any boost bypass table in the tune, not safe for WOT on pump gas

(@satera correct me if I misunderstood anything)

 

[coanan]

He was all over the the place on explaining both types. I could be wrong, but I think last bullet point in 1 and 2 maybe swapped.

 

[Vet Rider]

I've never seen a tuner reliably do it yet on this platform.

Jesus Christ its like a yenta sewing circle in here. you ladies all with your wives tails... Fuuuck.

Pick your poison. You want pedal position vs bypass, there you go. I mean you HP Tuners has total control of it. Like complete. Any tuner charging more than a pizza and some beer for his tunes should be able to do this.

Problem you all face is most tuners have their cookie cutter tunes that you all get. If you really want to know or get more granular here, you need to get involved and learn this shit. HP Tuners can be a bit challenging at first, but once you get the over all picture of how they put these tables together then you see whats really going on. There are usually tables that denote the values that are used to control other tables. They work hand in hand.

 

[Blkout]

Jesus Christ its like a yenta sewing circle in here. you ladies all with your wives tails... Fuuuck.

Pick your poison. You want pedal position vs bypass, there you go. I mean you HP Tuners has total control of it. Like complete. Any tuner charging more than a pizza and some beer for his tunes should be able to do this.

Problem you all face is most tuners have their cookie cutter tunes that you all get. If you really want to know or get more granular here, you need to get involved and learn this shit. HP Tuners can be a bit challenging at first, but once you get the over all picture of how they put these tables together then you see whats really going on. There are usually tables that denote the values that are used to control other tables. They work hand in hand.

View attachment 639689

I know HP Tuners quite well actually, it has ZERO to do with me knowing HP Tuners and everything to do with the Hellcat expert tuners NOT doing this because I'll say it again, I've never seen a tuner reliably do it yet and this includes ALL the top tuners. In the posted video in this thread, Satera, one of the top tuners in this business even says at 23 minutes he DOES NOT recommend hammering a high boost car even with a boost bleed flex tune on 93 octane. This is not new, this ability has been around since 2016 and no top tuner does this with their flex tunes because they just don't trust software to be 100% reliable when a customer could blow up their car if the software fails for any reason.

 

[Blkout]

Of coarse you did. Maybe you should watch the whole thing and just skip past a few non-pertinent things.

A timestamp would have saved everyone a lot of time. Just saying. No need to watch an hour long video for 5 minutes of information related to the subject at hand. At 23 minutes pretty much says it all. Even though he can control the bypass valve for boost bleed, he DOES NOT recommend hammering a high boost application on 93 octane. This is why so many tuners have not gone this route with their flex tunes on high boost applications. No one trusts the software to make a change like that with 100% reliability and likely why Dodge didn't do it either with the D170 tune.

 

[Blkout]

I watched the video, to summarize he offers two different options:

1 his own flex fuel system that uses an ethanol sensor wired into the ECU with a custom tune

• uses his own sourced ethanol sensor with his own custom plumbing and harness modifications
• supports more models than the other option I think (HC, RE, TH, TRX but not sure if everything)
• does not show HP on the uconnect screen as fuel content changes
• does show fuel ethanol % somewhere, I think?
• /does/ have boost bypass table in the tune--will reduce boost to protect engine for WOT pulls on pump gas

however, he warns it's not something to rely on--just a safety measure--advises to run better gas when you plan to get on it.

2 his own adaption of the factory D170 flex fuel

• supports 2018+ Demon/RE/SS/HC--retrofits the factory D170 solution to these other models
• does not yet support any 2015-2017 nor TH/TRX
• uses D170 factory ECU
• uses D170 factory ethanol sensor
• shows HP on the uconnect screen as fuel content changes
• does not have any boost bypass table in the tune, not safe for WOT on pump gas

(@satera correct me if I misunderstood anything)

And this is probably why no top tuner does this. I recall one top tuner experimenting with this back in 2016 but came to the conclusion that it wasn't reliable.

 

[Blkout]

And I'm sure dozens of Dodge engineers had no idea of the load such factors would generate and all of the enhancements they made to the D170 engine over the Redeye (for an extra 70 HP on pump) had no way of handling this. I guess the real experts have spoken, let's just all hand in our keys.

The video posted in this thread by Satera explains it well starting at 21 minutes. You can choose to hammer a D170 on 93 octane if you want, but you're on borrowed time.

 

[LaRocque]

The E85 near me is more like E70 to E74 that is perfect. No, more isn’t better in this case like E85 0r higher… E90 race. You could run out of Injector % duty or pumps ability. A few folks with more time testing, Track time and solid testing with Data Logging have substantiated this. I would listen to them they have the testing, logging and are ahead of the curve being they got the car sooner and have put in more time Data Logging. I will get there just a little more late to the party, but listen to them we know the ones that have experience, common sense and proven data facts that prevail.

Heck, I’ll just get my stash of good old trusty Uncle Jessie’s “shine mix” and forget about all that E85 mumbo-jumbo.

a little of that uncle Jessie juice, and you can be sure to run any quarter mile, jumps, figure 8’s, dirt back roads…it’ll put any of that Talk’in Trans Am Kitt Turbo Boost to shame … yes it certainly will.

whatever you need, and don’t forget the Golden Rule… Demon Girl gets a nip of the sauce first, and then you can get a nip of the sauce… you just gotta share it.

cause we got “4-on-the-floor, 5-in-the-air, and dual-quad-EVERYTHING”

Ole’ Roscoe won’t ever know what hit ‘em.
besides, we got ole Cooter in speed dial now, and he can patch up just about anything you can throw at the demon-gal.

You’d be surprised what a little bondo, piss, and hose clamps can do for ya in a pinch.
Don’t forget the duct tape ‘cause you can fabricate just about any damn near part on the fly with that stuff.

After all, them good ‘ole Dodge boy engineers damn near learned everything from old Cooter anyway…

well…them Dodge boys stole it all from old Cooter anyway … you can be sure if that!
Especially the bondo, piss, and hose clamps set up..
Cooter ain’t never even got any royalties for it either.
Well… that’s another story anyway…
Yep 👍
and now you know… the rest of the story

 

[Slowpoke387]

Heck, I’ll just get my stash of good old trusty Uncle Jessie’s “shine mix” and forget about all that E85 mumbo-jumbo.

a little of that uncle Jessie juice, and you can be sure to run any quarter mile, jumps, figure 8’s, dirt back roads…it’ll put any of that Talk’in Trans Am Kitt Turbo Boost to shame … yes it certainly will.

whatever you need, and don’t forget the Golden Rule… Demon Girl gets a nip of the sauce first, and then you can get a nip of the sauce… you just gotta share it.

cause we got “4-on-the-floor, 5-in-the-air, and dual-quad-EVERYTHING”

Ole’ Roscoe won’t ever know what hit ‘em.
besides, we got ole Cooter in speed dial now, and he can patch up just about anything you can throw at the demon-gal.

You’d be surprised what a little bondo, piss, and hose clamps can do for ya in a pinch.
Don’t forget the duct tape ‘cause you can fabricate just about any damn near part on the fly with that stuff.

After all, them good ‘ole Dodge boy engineers damn near learned everything from old Cooter anyway…

well…them Dodge boys stole it all from old Cooter anyway … you can be sure if that!
Especially the bondo, piss, and hose clamps set up..
Cooter ain’t never even got any royalties for it either.
Well… that’s another story anyway…
Yep 👍
and now you know… the rest of the story

Hickster is that you?

 

[Spoolin]

Satera wouldn't have been able to fix that issue either. The fact is the D170 makes so much boost that it's not safe on 93 octane. As Speedy stated, without bypass adaptation to reduce boost level at WOT, you simply can't go WOT safely on the D170 on 93 octane. A tuner could retard the Hell out of the timing to possibly get it to run on 93 octane at WOT but it would run quite poorly if it was even safe at all.

Best bet with the D170 would probably be to run a mixture of 93 and E85. Something like 5-6 gallons of E85, then fill the rest with 93 for "normal" driving purposes.

 

[Under-Pressure]

Best bet with the D170 would probably be to run a mixture of 93 and E85. Something like 5-6 gallons of E85, then fill the rest with 93 for "normal" driving purposes.

That is my driving around mix for the 170. A 50/50 of pump E85 & 93 octane (E10) yields around E40 / 960 hp on the dash. Car runs great & data logs look safe for spirited driving. Just top off with whatever fuel I’m near & let the flex fuel tuning do the rest.

 

[Reaperhwk]

Good video on demon 170 top speed runs.

 

[Demon Fan 777]

Just amazed by folks who think a 1000 hp drag car is always going to run perfectly every time they take it to the track. This is mostly a new engine with a new tune from Dodge, and there are some bugs to work out for those dragging them like me. Nevertheless, mine has run like a top so far with the exception of needing to regap my spark plugs. And for those who dont think the 2018 Demons and redeye engines in general did not have issues, and dont STILL have issues from time to time, i have a bridge to sell you. Also, I strongly recomend following the FULL break-in procedure in the Demon 170 Manual Supplement, Page 5 before dragging. Dodge put the procedure in writing for a reason, and it warns of engine failure risk if not followed.