Headers do work but the cost of headers are expensive and labor is very difficult if you choose to install them yourself. If you pay to have them installed it's going to be very expensive.

 

Its always the labor that's F's you in the drive thru!

 

There's a reason why most people just go with a stage 1 type upgrade, 180 thermostat, 2.85 pulley, crank pin, injectors, and PCM and TCM tune. Its the best bang for the buck.

 

I’ve a lot of reading and most the hp gain is not worth the cost.

 

Thanks guys, guess Ill 86 this idea. Just wanted to make sure there weren't any updates to this mod with new found benefits.

 

Costly indeed. However I do believe you'll be closer to 40-50hp with a tune and hi-flo or no cats. It does make for a more efficient airflow and can run a 2.72 HR pulley without a flex setup. Not the best bang for the buck but still some advantages if you have the means.

 

OE exhaust manifolds are pretty darn good out the box. Better ways to spend your money on a Cat unless you're looking for the sound.

 

Yes they are worth it. Get the air in and out and long tube headers will help.
Also stated above it is very expensive to have them installed.

 

Without a doubt a shorty is definitely not worth it. If you are going to do it, do a longtube. That said, the gains vs cost really aren't worth it. Most of FCA's late model exhaust manifold designs are extremely efficient which means there is not a lot of gain to be had. This is true on the 5.7 and 6.4 as well.


Also, high flow cats are junk. Don't get them.

 

Idk about the 5.7L cars but the trucks it helps more than most mods.

 

I've answered this before but here's my experience.
I had a chall srt with a 6.1
I had a edelbrock e force supercharger installed and kooks long tubes and mid pipes with high flow cats.
It was dyno tuned.
1st the car sounded amazing. I also had corsa extreme cat back.
2nd the e force kit is designed to run 6lbs of boost
My car made 4.3 lbs of boost. After talking to an edelbrock engineer he said that was perfectly normal because the headers are more efficient than the factory exhaust and they see 1 to 1.5 lbs less boost. So you wont again any power unless you up your boost by changing a pulley.
As said you could run a 2.72 with headers and be in the safe zone boost wise. So you would probably get another 40rwhp with headers
The question is is 40rwhp worth $2000 +?
If the answere is yes for you then I would highly recommend ceramic coating. My engine compartment temps went way up from the headers. ( they weren't coated)

 

headers are more efficient than the factory exhaust and they see 1 to 1.5 lbs less boost. So you wont again any power unless you up your boost by changing a pulley.

What is fascinating about this here, to me, is that the Hellcat cam is even MORE exhaust-duration-centric than a naturally-aspirated engine such as the one by Hemiride.

If you are keeping the car for life, might as well get headers and a tune. They will save you money from that point forward in normal-state driving, because with more consistency from cylinder to cylinder, the "bad cylinder drags it all down" syndrome of having less-than-consistent cylinder-to-cylinder behavior will be reduced, and efficiency and power will go up, without doing anything else, but it takes diligence tuning it.

Further, it opens up the way for even more power , complementing a cam and pulley, which would even MORE exacerbate any inconsistencies from cylinder to cylinder.

But, the stock engine does not need headers anywhere NEAR as badly as the original muscle cars did compared to their clunky cast iron manifolds, some of which would gain 50hp or more just by bolting on headers.

 

Had them installed on my ex wife,,,,, paid more to have em taken off. Like having braces for your teeth. Hurts like hell, not cheap, and may not work. No mo.

 

There are cats going mid 9's with factory shorty headers, not worth it at all. If you do a search the same question was asked in 2016, 2017, 2018 and now. I wish you guys would do a search.

 

Skip STs. LTs or leave stock.

Also, I have always thought of headers as a supporting mod, not a mod unto itself. If you are going to pulley down/add intake/E85 (if you have not already) you will get a lot more out of those mods with LTs.

 

I think the long tubes are worth it. My car lost almost 2lbs of boost from better efficiency which really helps with the race tune and pulley on E85. I will never run use catless mids again just from the stupid pulse popping sound as it passes the through the tubing.

 

I sought out a post like this for a reason.

If a car is losing boost with freer-flowing headers, it may be the case that the valve timing itself is partially to blame, for not being optimized for cylinder fill with a less-restrictive exhaust system.

The stock headers are coupled with the stock valve timing.

If, for example, the exhaust ports vented to a perfect vacuum, you would not need as much exhaust timing, because you would be discarding fresh air, possibly with some gasoline, out the exhaust port during overlap.

The closer your exhaust port approaches a perfect vacuum, the less exhaust valve timing you need, especially during the critical overlap period.

Ironically, adding a turbocharger ALSO lessens the need for exhaust valve timing, because there is so much backpressure that having the exhaust valves open a good, long time will get you far more reversion than with a system vented to atmosphere without a turbocharger intervening.

The most timing, intake and exhaust, will be for n/a engines.

I would think that cam specs for very high-flow exhaust systems, most specifically, large-tube headers, should have less duration than cams for exhaust systems with somewhat shorter and more restrictive headers.

In FACT, since the blower acts as somewhat of a one-way valve, I think it would pay off to experiment with truly oversized (to the common mindset) headers, to take advantage of that, so that the initial exhaust rush would have a nice, big, low-restriction chamber by which to exit. Now, obviously, at lower RPM, where these engines need literally NO HELP WHATSOEVER, PERIOD, FULL STOP, you may lose some power due to somewhat reduced scavenging by the exiting exhaust gas "accordian" not stretching as far as it does with smaller-tube headers, but, hey, why not have dual-chamber exhaust primaries? It works well on intakes, such as the original Corvette ZR-1. It would not be rocket science to set it up. a butterfly positioned so it shuts off the secondary exhaust primaries could open to reduce resistance at higher RPM and tune the "accordian efffect" such that it would be optimized at its target RPM.

There is only so much magic that can happen with the same pipe serving all RPM.

 

There are cats going mid 9's with factory shorty headers, not worth it at all. If you do a search the same question was asked in 2016, 2017, 2018 and now. I wish you guys would do a search.

Every year there are new developments, doesnt hurt to ask when your aforementioned threads have mixed reviews just as this one does. You didnt have to stop by and post.

 

Idk about the 5.7L cars but the trucks it helps more than most mods.

I have seen 0 gains on the 5.7 and 6.4 cars. Multiple times before and after on the dyno. They don't pick up anything, the trucks are indeed a bit different.

 

I agree with you.
I got 0 gaines from my long tubes because i lost about 1.5lbs of boost due to higher efficiency.

Now if I would have added a smaller pulley to get that boost back I would have seen a 40ish rwhp gain. But on a N/A car I would say they are a wste of $$

 

The long tubes are the way to go. But its probably not the first mod you should do. There are better 'bang for the buck' mods to do first.

 

https://www.hellcat.org/threads/lets-talk-about-longtube-headers.35473/
Here you go. There are gains to be made. Proof is in this thread.
Cheers lots of knowledge in here.

 

Just so everyone is on the same page....the "Hellcat" factory headers are identical to the 485hp 6.4L factory headers. Only change was location of the 02 sensor up into the manifold itself, versus the 6.4L that has the front 02's in the midpipes. The flanges, primaries, etc etc are all identical 1 5/8" design.

I only point this out so everyone understands the "factory" shorties were never designed specifically for the 707hp hellcat, they are repurposed 6.4L manifolds that apparently flow well enough for 900+ crank hp. Looks like the Hellephant also makes use of the identical manifolds....which is 1000hp at the crank.

Folks pushing north of 1000hp at the crank, or looking for a high boost pump gas setup, should look at long tubes. Otherwise seems like just looking for dropped pennies in front of a freight train of better options.

 

I agree that the folks with e85 setups and possibly the nitrous guys might benefit from the headers due to the increase in chamber volume of combustion. I am sticking to a 2.85 setup when the time comes. My goal is to hit 9.90s in 2000’ DA on 93 octane and I don’t think that’s enough volume of air to make the difference to necessitate the need for long tubes unless I’m going for a max effort build.

 

I've always wondered if it was due to going cat-less/high flow cats that people were getting gains. Looking at the size and design of my stock headers I really don't see any benefit to going LT with the exception of if you were installing a cam and were chasing for high-mid/top end power specifically. Granted I have a 392 not a HC but if anything I would assume the HC headers would be more efficient. I'd love to see a dyno comparison between stock headers w/ cat delete and longtubes with cat delete.

 

This topic has been going on since the cat came out, no one really recommended them.

I have long tube headers on almost every car ive ever bought even my daily driven cars.

The cat is the only one that i havent installed them on because of the reviews!

 

Longtubes will be one of the first things I will be doing to mine. It's not just about power, volumetric and thermal efficiency is just as important.

A cast, short unequal runner manifold has never been a good design, regardless of if "it works". It is solely designed for Mass production and space constraints. A stepped, equal length manifold with primaries and secondaries that are tuned for proper pulse will always be superior and beneficial to the motor. This true for a NA, blown or Turbo setups and everywhere in-between.

 

I totally agree , i was thinking the black heart hookers. 2’ primaries.

Which ones are you going with?

 

If you go with headers use stage 8 locking header bolts !!!
Stage 8 Locking Fasteners - Stage 8

 

850rwhp plus get the air in and get it out!
Super charged engines need to breathe..
Labor..., yes super expensive
HP gains very little with a tune= 25-35hp gains maybe more depends on applications
Super expensive.....
Im putting long tube headers in only because my block is coming out so I’m saving on the labor.

 

https://www.hellcat.org/threads/lets-talk-about-longtube-headers.35473/
Read this thread it helps.... lots of knowledge like I posted up top.